Smacking 'does no harm if a child feels loved': do you agree?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We're wondering how you feel about new research that suggests smacking does children no harm as long as they know it is for the right reasons and feel loved.

The publication of this study - which focused on teenagers, it must be said - is causing quite a stir, with, according to the Telegraph, 'parenting groups and charities [reacting] angrily to the findings, [and] maintaining that a child can suffer long term damage from physical discipline'.

In Britain, parents are not banned from smacking their children but it is illegal to inflict injuries causing more than a temporary reddening of the skin.

So, do you agree that smacking is fine, as long as it's tempered with a backdrop of love and affection? Or do you think that smacking is never the answer? Please do tell.

Also, I truly believe that when you find fault with your parents as an adult in a way that is about not "forgiving" them for their humanity, the issue is yours and not theirs. Anyone who says they will never, ever forgive their parent for anything other than severe physical, sexual or emotional abuse is simply carrying around suffering that they could choose to let go. We only live now. If you are not forgiving your parent for something from ten/twenty/thirty years ago, you are choosing to do that now. The actual incident is long gone and is only words and pictures in your head. If you think that it's reasonable to continue to live your life based on words and pictures in your head and that it is in line with your values to judge another person harshly, go ahead but that's your decision NOW, not a "result" of something from years ago.

Well obviously privatenightmare, should the teacher smack my little darlings I would wallop them round the head with my handbag of hypocrisy. Happy now?

The serious answer is that as far as I know only their father and I have ever smacked them. I expect their teachers, our family and friends to keep the dcs safe above all. I expect the teachers to keep control of themselves, as I do when operating in a professional context. I expect to keep control of myself in a personal context too but I also must accept I have failed at that and may do so again. If I fail in a professional context though I expect sanctions to be taken against me of course. I would have been perfectly happy for people dealing with my dcs to 'parent' as I have parented. So to smack in the way I have would be acceptable to me. It is not professionally acceptable however for teachers to smack in tehir professional context. Goodness I suspect dd3's teacher would have like to on occasion.

My father told us all the time how much he adored and loved us.

He also smacked us.

I hate my father.

I would think it's debatable whether shouting is worse than smacking - the problem is everyone is taking the argument to extremes.
Saying would you smack an adult, well no adult is going to run across the road in front of a car, and if they do you won't care as much if they are run over as if it's your child, you love your child more and are responsible for their safety.

A smack maybe once or twice in their life eg when they ran onto the road and the smack was an instant response might be a better idea than loudly saying not to do that again, when you shout at them daily for something or other.

forgot who asked me but my son is 6 and hasn't had a smack for years as far as i recall - know he had the odd one in toddler stage. the difference between playing and a smack? pretty obvious - one involves cuddling, tickling, messing and ds saying, 'smack my bum!', 'tickle me', etc between squeals of laughter and the other was something that happened in the context of repeatedly doing something with repeated warnings and consequences till final warning of 'do that again and i will smack your bottom' followed by a tap (lighter than when playing as i said) on the bottom.

i already explained why it worked for us so don't think i'll repeat that except shorthand to say nothing to do with pain or punishment but a clear gone too far, 'the end' moment.

in reality he probably had ten smacks in his whole life.

if that actually - probably more like 5 but i'm ok with admitting it happened a few times.

Working9, I didn't even realise that smacking had left this 'issue' with me until about 5 years after I left my abusive ex.

I hold no grudge at all against my parents because they simply did what was the parenting norm at the time. But it would be a lie if I said that I accepted being hit by the ex boyfriend/partner as anything else than conditioning from when I was a child.

I truly believe that when you find fault with your parents as an adult in a way that is about not "forgiving" them for their humanity, the issue is yours and not theirs.

Well, this is offensive.

It appears we have different ideas about what forgiveness means, working, but that's a side issue. The problem is that my childhood failed to provide the social & emotional foundations we expect people to grow up with. That's a serious disadvantage. Of course I blame my parents - I didn't do that to myself.

just been thinking and i wouldn't dream of smacking ds now. he is 6yo and there would be no need whatsoever and it wouldn't be at all effective in any way. to me there is a massive difference between tapping a toddler/preschooler who has lost the plot or is determined to not be reasoned with on the hand or bottom and hitting an older child.

my own view is that those taps were very rare but effective and not harmful in a very specific short window of development. to smack him now would be ridiculous - he's 6! i know i'll be picked apart as irrational but i do think it is wrong to smack a child over the age of 3 or so.

yes, along with Flibberty, i don't feel the need to add a qualifying "yet" just as i don't tell people, "i haven't hit my husband, yet" there are somethings i know i will never do.
working9while5 - we all react in our own way to extremely stressful and frightening situations and while i agree that we must make mistakes in front of our children, the line to be crossed is in different places for different people. just as many parents who smack occasionally with an open palm as a last resort would never pick up a belt to use on their child, even in the most extreme and stressful situations, i would never smack my child (or anyone else for that matter) with my hand regardless of the emotional state i'd got into.

Flibberty, as you describe: Whatever the child receives from its parents, it experiences as love. (Attachment theory.) The adult who was thwacked by its parents, therefore, develops an understanding that love is violent and/or painful.

agree garlic - i do think there's a difference between parents being human and fallible and parents being outright dysfunctional, abusive or neglectful iyswim i though. it is right to judge the latter to overjudge the former is unkind imo.

see one of my lines is definitely that i would never say, " you ARE xxxx " (insert negative trait/word/accusation).

Flibbertyjibbet, you do realise that's a story you are telling yourself though?

I am not saying this harshly. I had a far from ideal childhood (seriously abusive alcoholic dad, mother with anxiety issues who would basically avoid all childcare when she was anxious, disappear for hours and even overnight leaving us alone yadda yadda yadda).

I can see how there was conditioning in my background that heightened my susceptibility to anxiety myself as an adult, I could also say that this very same conditioning made it more likely that I would react by smacking as an adult in a moment of weakness. I think this is possibly true but I am also aware that a good deal of our reality is mediated by the stories we tell ourselves about our life history and maybe neither of these things are true. No one remembers everything about their childhood or its general mood or tone, it is impossible to recreate because it's gone. It's the nature of human language and cognition to be able to react to memories as though they were real and current, but that's just a sad part of our humanity too.

I have huge compassion for your suffering both as a child and as an adult in an abusive relationship. I just don't believe that it's ever as simply causal as that. If that were true, you would never have chosen to leave, you would have to stay. You didn't. You have choice and free will no matter what your life history. It's not simple but in terms of current functioning, blame very rarely achieves anything.

We are not the content of the stories we tell about our lives for better or for worse. I didn't choose an abusive partner despite having a history that might have "conditioned" me for it, but that's just half chance. All our choices are, they're just not as open to control as we believe. There's no need for self-congratulation or self-blame, but that sort of holds true for your background too.

"working9while5 - we all react in our own way to extremely stressful and frightening situations and while i agree that we must make mistakes in front of our children, the line to be crossed is in different places for different people. just as many parents who smack occasionally with an open palm as a last resort would never pick up a belt to use on their child, even in the most extreme and stressful situations, i would never smack my child (or anyone else for that matter) with my hand regardless of the emotional state i'd got into."

How do you know?

I was always in favour of smacking for my own child - until I had one! She is a very strong willed toddler and when tantrumming it is very tempting to want to "shock" her out of it - but to be honest it would be lack of control, or either premeditated violence - both of which are awful.

(I find me slamming a door in another part of the house is enough to bring ME round from anger when she's tantrumming - and for her I just wait it out then cuddle)

I was also smacked as I child and although at the time I would agree I deserved it - I also know that each time it happened I HATED my parents and withdrew from them a bit more. I would be very sad to do that with my daughter :(

and it is reductionist to say a child who is abused will see abuse as love. it just isn't true - not in that causal sense as plenty of us who were abused have not responded in that way.

i know how my mother treated me as child wasn't love - i knew it wasn't as a child and rejected the, "she loves you really" narratives my father would provide. we are more intelligent than pavlov's dogs.

i'm sad that so many people can remember being smacked - as in were smacked when they were old enough to now remember it and remember how it felt.

i actually don't believe there is any justification for smacking a child over the age of three or so.

Of course it's reductionist, SAF! It's half a line in a post!

it was a statement none the less - i don't think my stating it on it's own changed it's content.

sad that so many people can remember being smacked - as in were smacked when they were old enough to now remember

My first remembered 'smack' made an impression because I flew across the room and hit the wall. I was about four. There would have been many, many before that.

Does that fact that violence was my normal, and so not much remembered, make it harmless??

My father also hit my nephew this hard (flew across room) when he was toddling, about 19 months. He doesn't remember this, so was it fine that my dad did it?

that isn't a smack that's abuse. that's major violence and what anyone here and the law would classify as abuse. i'm very sorry for your childhood but i'm not sure why it's a weapon against me or i'm seen as sanctioning it

and it's not at all what i meant - that it's ok if you don't remember. i'm sure that was clear. my point was that imo as i have said clearly that there is no excuse or need for 'smacking' children who are beyond three as reasoning and emotional lability etc is totally different by then.

northernlurker - i really wasn't looking for a reason to call you a hypocrite. i must have an aggressive way of typing or something???
i am genuinely interested, since teachers take over parental responsibility to some extent and also lose their temper on occasion, i just wondered how people felt about it. in lots of countries corporal punishment is used in schools and i believe is legal here in some religious "sunday school" type settings.

Not all children are receptive.......
Dd1 is the opposite of receptive when she wants to be. Doesn't qualify a smack.