National Union of Teachers calls for lesson teaching time to be capped at four hours a day - what do you think?

[JaneGMumsnet]

Hello,

We've been asked by Metro to find out your thoughts on the news that the National Union of Teachers (NUT) has said that teachers should spend no more than 20 hours a week taking classes (four hours a day).

The NUT called for new limits on working hours amid concerns that school staff are facing "totally unsustainable" workloads. In some cases, teachers are left with little time to eat, talk, think or even go to the toilet, the NUT's annual conference in Liverpool heard.

The NUT passed a motion demanding a new working week of 20 hours' teaching time, up to 10 hours of lesson preparation and marking, and five hours of other duties. Other duties include time spent inputting data and at parents' evenings. This marks a drastic reduction in teachers' hours, the conference heard.

NUT Coventry representative Christopher Denson claimed that official figures from 2010 show that a primary classroom teacher works 50.2 hours a week on average, while a secondary school teacher works an average of 49.9 hours. "The same data tells us that four in five teachers have worked all through a night to catch up with work and spend every single term-time Sunday catching up with lessons," Mr Denson said. He added: "It's essential that we act to ensure that what's already NUT policy - a maximum working week of 35 hours - becomes a reality for teachers."

Do you agree with the NUT's position?

If you are a teacher, do Mr Denson's comments resonate with you?

We'd love to hear your thoughts.

Many thanks,

MNHQ

'and i can assure you that once the summer holidays started, they almost never went into work',

Worse. Half their class was always in our house during the holidays too.......

When I started teaching I didn't go in during the holidays except the day before the autumn term started. It is a different job now- there will be a list of the days the school is open. Teachers will be in this week.

Again, not very applicable if you teach primary - even if you are lucky enough to stay in the same year group, the curriculum is constantly changing.

I think that it is very different in primary PollyEthel. If you are doing Science you have no technician, you have to get all the equipment yourself and make sure it is sorted. A class of 7yr olds will not sit quietly for five minutes while you sort it out.

To answer the original question: do I, as a teacher, agree with the NUT's position? No, I don't. I think they're bloody stupid to highlight this as an issue at the moment when the biggest bugbear in education at the moment is the target-driven agenda from Gove, Wilshaw and Ofsted. Sort them out and teachers would be a lot more content.

Polly, teachers are not doing this level of planning because they want to (I was generally quite happy teaching on the fly, if needed!). They are doing it because that is what is required during SMT planning scrutinies.

I am SMT (academic) and never expect detailed lesson plans unless it's a formal observation (when a lesson plan is a recommendation rather than a requirement).

As for setting up science practicals, there are very good lazy teacher approaches. I am a firm believer in students collecting, setting up, and washing up their own equipment. I only ask my technician to do what the students can't do for themselves.

Following on from Clam's comment...

Not only is NUT asking for a reduction in contact time, they are also demanding a halving of class sizes. What planet are they on? They are a laughing stock. NUTters.

Polly - you are very lucky then. As I said upthread, I'm teaching two completely new KS4 specs this year. I can't tweak last year's lesson plans for that. At KS3 I can, to an extent, but my school has changed from sets to mixed ability at KS3 this year which has meant major tweaking. Also, terms are different lengths, there are different demands from SLT. The other thing, of course, and given that you're SLT I find some of your comments rather odd, OFSTED has changed its framework TWICE since September, so what was fine one or two years ago is not anymore.

I'm not a servant to Ofsted

Hahahaahahaha!

I am a member of SMT , we have made clear that we so not want to see individual teachers writing new lessons to fit in with the latest OFTED whim. Departments have been given time to create new schemes of work , although again we suggested that where possible tweaks should be made.

To be honest we would rather be rated good by OFSTED and have teachers who enjoy teaching and have the energy to do so, than be rated outstanding but have knackered demoralised staff.

Agree with the NUT that there needs to be a cap on time spent on admin, inputting data, responding to emails, all the charts and graphs...
I'm happy to do current amount of teaching and ppa, its all the other stuff

Class sizes are an issue though. Marking 32 students in a class is a heavy workload compared with the 26 when I first started teaching.

I was a member of SMT and SLT myself for that matter! However, when I was an 'ordinary' class teacher detailed planning was required of me; when I became a member of SLT I was, to my regret, unable to persuade the HT and other members of SLT that a more time-saving approach would be sufficient....

Feenie.

exoticfruits Your comments above the school my DS go to you do have exactly that situation there is a teacher who has been there for 30 years teaching the same year groups, there has been no change with 50% of the teachers over the last 10 years -the benefit is we have lovely older strict teachers no messing around, but the lessons they are teaching year on year even some of the parents remember!!

sorry forgot to add hence my question about planning taking so long, my DS school may just be unusual but it's why the planning time always baffled me slightly.

I'm not sure how they manage that- I have had to change my lessons completely in that time scale.

I don't think the NUT are doing teachers any favours here - so many people think teachers work 9 - 3.30 and this isn't going to help.

We need to get parents on side and moaning about what a lot of people think is a pretty cushy deal isn't going to get that. Why are we not talking more about how Ofsted isn't fit for purpose, how Gove is bullying schools into becoming academies, the English GCSE grade boundaries, how the education of our children is being used as a way for Gove to make a name for himself?

I agree, i can't mark a piece of work in 1 minute! I was just trying to illustrate the point that marking can take hours and hours. I have a year 1 class and think the majority of the time i mark is a total waste of my time. It would be far more beneficial to spend the time on preparation. Who am i marking for exactly? The children can't read it, it's an impossibility to feedback to each child on every occassion. It's become a farce in my opinion. I think we are partly to blame for not standing up and saying so. I cope by thinking in simple terms, what do i want these children to achieve by the end of the year and what skills do i have to teach them to get there. I also believe the degree of differentiation is pointless and often detrimental, the children often become confused and i certainly do! I don't think i'm an incompetent teacher, i'm a realist and wish there was a bit of common sense in the profession.

EvilTwins - so why then did exotics write this:

As a supply teacher I am payed for the hours I work- I get a higher rate because I don't get any pay in the holidays

then you write that
IF the supply teacher worked on all 195 available days in the school year, then she would earn £19,500- the same as the contracted teacher. She just wouldn't get it in 12 equal chunks.

a higher rate is just that a higher rate - yet you state that you both would earn the same daily rate just that you pay is divided differently

so do you get the same rate of pay or does one of you get a higher rate of pay?

The same rate,but as a supply there is nothing in the holidays. RavenAK explained it perfectly at 21.54 yesterday.

"I don't see why teachers can't be more like consultants and use their training and pedagogy skills to 'manage' TAs and LSAs."

A valid point if you are lucky enough to have a full time TA. LSAs are there for an individual child so shouldn't be asked to do admin tasks.

I teach 2 1/2 days a week (paid for 16 hours, work 40) and have a TA for 3 hours of that time. In that time I need them to support groups in maths and English lessons, carry out 2 x reading interventions, a social skills group and hear individual target readers. More than they can do in that time so I think I would be taking the piss asking them to mark books or help me plan, put up displays etc. tbh. This is in primary.

I love the job, it is the paperwork bogging me down and I am a very efficient person, there is just too much to do.

What exotic said. It's the same daily rate but a contracted teacher would have their 195 days divided into 12 equal chunks whereas a supply teacher would get it in uneven chunks depending on when they had actually worked. I was a supply teacher for about a year. Term time pay was great. Holidays meant no pay- much like other temp jobs.