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Original poster

I have rejoined just to ask this question.

43 replies

hathorisaskingaquestion · 04/07/2012 18:00

Why are some members of this site allowed to get away with persistently being vile, pushing an agenda, defending the indefensible, upsetting other members, twisting versions of events and generally being nasty, and they do not get banned?

Not about any one particular poster, but I have noticed that some stronger "personalities" on here seem to be Teflon coated.

Why is this?

Why do the owners of this site want that kind of vile poster and do not seem to care about the number of truly decent kind posters who are being upset and driven off the site?

Go to post
MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:37

Hello. We can categorically assure you that anyone we believed to be being persistently vile would be hearing from us. At the very least.

No one is Teflon-coated.

Having said that, we don't generally make a policy of telling everyone else that a certain poster or posters are hearing from us (at the very least).

We appreciate that sometimes this can seem as though we are doing nothing. But that's really not our style

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:38

@LeB0F

Helen, come and answer the OP! That stiff about the hirsute lady banjo player will go with me to my grave, I promise.

LeBOF, sssssh! [shock}

MNHQ

OliviaSvelteMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:41

Hello
I am not actually working this evening but happen to be here.
Just wanted to clarify that AFAIK there are no posters who have MNHQ in their pockets (or any compromising polaroids for that matter Grin)
We do our damnedest every single day and often very late into the night to treat all Mumsnetters alike and fairly, whilst maintaining our stance on freedom of speech.

HTH

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:41

@hairylemon

Ive noticed this OP but we are probably thinking of different posters.

Ive noticed a lot of obvious goading and shit stirring posts (more recently on the recent FWR discussion threads) made by some people that no way in hell would be allowed to stand if it was a lesser known poster making them. The deletion policy is a joke aswell, Ive had posts deleted that have said pretty much the exact same thing that a more well known poster has made and theirs has been allowed to stand.

Ive often wondered if some are from MNHQ tbh

On the same thread, hairylemon? I would be astonished, if so.

If however, the two similar posts were on different threads, it's entirely possible that one post was reported to us and the other was not.

We do rely on folks to report posts that break our Guidelines.

MNHQ

OliviaSvelteMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:48

@TheSecondComing

I woukd like to ask a question.

It seems there have been some threads recently deleted because they made the OP's of those threads look bad (i think the technical term is 'they didn't go as expected and therefore were pulled')

Also posting history for people who've not been 'outed' has been deleted, which is odd, isn't it?

Why has this been happening quite a bit lately? Thanks

Just cos someone isn't outed publicly doesn't mean that they don't have valid concerns about privacy/confidentiality but we don't routinely delete threads at the OP's request
HTH

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:48

@hairylemon

Yes Helen it was on the same thread, infact the post was only a couple of posts above mine. Just chafed my arse a bit tis all.

Well do please re-report it - we'll take a look and see what happened. And, of course, mail you about it.

MNHQ

OliviaSvelteMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:52

@GetOrfMoiiLand

Actually whilst someone from MNHQ, is it against the spirit of the site to say to someone 'hang on, you are saying x on this thread, but a few weeks ago on another thread you said y'. Does that go against the thread about a thread rule.

Probably not against "spirit of the site" - depends on tone/context/whether tis troll hunting.

Questioning someone for saying blue is their fave colour when their nickname is RedRedI'mAllAboutRed is fair enough. Grin

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:53

@GetOrfMoiiLand

Actually whilst someone from MNHQ, is it against the spirit of the site to say to someone 'hang on, you are saying x on this thread, but a few weeks ago on another thread you said y'. Does that go against the thread about a thread rule.

Guess it would depend how it was said (ie is it a personal attack?) and what the x and y were.

For example, if someone was a passionate breastfeeder on one thread but a evangelistic formula-feeder on another, it's entirely OK to point that out (politely). As it would be entirely OK for the person to respond by saying they'd changed their mind.

If, however, it was a kinda dragging up of old bunfights thing or a "but you said you hated GetOrf on that thread" kinda thing, that might be seen as being inflammatory.

As ever, context is everything.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:55

Ha! x-post with OliviaMN who is obvs quicker than me.

MNHQ

OliviaSvelteMumsnet · 04/07/2012 18:58

@hathorisaskingaquestion

SGB but they can be held responsible for what happens here.

And they are very very slow to respond to reports.

And even slower to do something.

which breeds ill-feeling and hurt.

Hathor - know you've been away for a bit but we have been having probs with email in the last couple of weeks HQ stuff of nightmares

On the contrary we are usually this last couple of weeks notwithstanding, very quick to reply to reports, even if all we say is that we are looking into something because the secret service does not comment on procedure.

We are absolutely not about breeding ill feeling or hurt.

Am leaving thread for a bit now as Helen is "on the case" and I have filthy children who need bathing but HTH

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:08

@hathorisaskingaquestion

Vicious attacking and vile posts don't matter then Alibaba, because it's only a forum? Breaking the law, insulting other groups, personal attacks on other posters, they don't matter because it's only a forum?

Wonder if the advertisers feel like that?

Or the HQ staffers when they get their wages?

But they do matter, of course they do. Because they break our Talk Guidelines. And will be deleted when they're brought to our attention. End of.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:12

Perhaps this might be the moment to repost Justine's post from t'other day (not all of it is strictly relevant to this thread but we're not really in the business of partial editing):

"Ok so suffice to say, none of this is edifying or in the spirit of MN but although it makes very painful reading (and apologies for late intervention but I've only just got to the end of it) it probably is for the best that this has all been spewed out as it is clear that there is an awful lot of background to why the FWR board has not been the welcoming place most Mumsnetters would like it to be.

"Of course folks are going to have private groups where they can reveal personal details but private groups to discuss Mumsnetters are never going to end well and when leaks occur, as they have a tendency to do, they can cause hurt, mistrust and paranoia.

"I'm going to lock this thread now by maxing the number of posts and we will think about the what next in the morning. We'll put up the new topics as suggested though they do feel a wee bit like fiddling while Rome burns now all this has emerged. Someone suggested that the way forward is for more feminism discussion (of the tolerant and supportive kind) and the sooner we can move onto that and away from the recrimination the sooner things will move on imho.

"It probably also makes sense for some of those really caught up in the unpleasantness to have a think about whether a break from MN might be a good thing. We'll be back tomorrow, night all."

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:14

@hathorisaskingaquestion

And that's the thing Amillion. I reported. I waited days. Literally days.

And then all I got back was a pat "you'll have to trust us to deal with this"

Well, actually HQ I don't know that I do trust you to deal with it.

Not on the evidence so far.

We're sorry to hear that, hath. But, as we told you in our mail, we can't reveal to posters any details of our dealings with another poster.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:16

@hathorisaskingaquestion

But it's not just about that Helen.

None of that is actually DOING anything about it.

The vile horrible people who seem to be Teflon will be back. And they will be allowed to do the same things all over again.

And tbh reporting feels a bit pointless to me.

The post gets deleted, but the attitude doesn't.

But just because we can't tell you what we're doing, it doesn't mean we're not doing it.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:22

@hathorisaskingaquestion

Helen I understand that.

But maybe you should be more open in what the steps are that lead to a ban? Or something?

I don't know, I don't have the answers. That's for HQ to figure out. But can't you see that you are driving lots of long-standing MNetters away with the lack of action on the vile posts (not just FWR BTW)?

Well, if someone was persistently reported to us, we would probably mail them to ask them to moderate their tone.

If they continued, we'd mail again, with a sterner warning.

If they continued or didn't acknowledge our mails, we might suspend their ability to post.

Then we might let them back or keep them banned, depending on their response/actions.

Alternatively, we might ban them straightaway or at phase one or two.

It just depends - on what they're posting, how often and how they respond to us.

And we're truly sorry you think lots of longstanding MNers are being driven away. That's obviously not what we'd want but we can't delete stuff, however vile, if folks don't report it.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:23

@UnicornRainbowLove

I don't really see why anyone who wasn't involved in the FB FUBAR is bothered by what happened TBH.

It was all played out on a thread (which has now disappeared) and that should be the end of it.

I'm sure that the people who did wrong will leave those who were wronged alone from now on and that's just great. Should any wronguns start shouting the odds again then they'll be dealt with, I'm sure.

Indeed.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:27

@hathorisaskingaquestion

But Helen I reported and reported.

It can and often does take days and days if not hours and hours to get a response.

And the thread is developing and the horrible comments are still standing and the ruck is carrying on in the meantime.

We do our level best to reply quickly to all reports and mails. But obviously mails that complain of sustained bullying campaigns take a wee bit longer to respond to - that's a lot of investigative work to do from our side.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:29

@TheSecondComing

Helen, how long after being in 'the system' does one get a new 'copy-book' to blot

It seems like there has been a policy change on thread deletions at the requesy of the OP's. Has there?

Everyone's copybook is the same, TSC. Unless it's already blotted!

No change on thread deletions at OP's request. We will do this if we think the request is a reasonable one in the circs, for privacy/confidence reasons. Being upset at the replies is not a reasonable reason - unless most of the replies were PAs etc

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:30

@hathorisaskingaquestion

So can't a thread be locked or quarantined or something in the meantime?

So new posts can't be added?

Yes, that's been suggested recently. And we're trying it out. We don't have the proper Tech gizmos to do it with yet so it's a bit laborious to do it across the boards right now - but we did do it with the last FWR thread in Site Stuff.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:32

@PlentyOfPubeGardens

I'm not supposed to be here this week, I'm supposed to be taking a break but I cannot look away

I just popped by to deliver [ gin ] and Thanks to MNHQ. What with all this interpersonal shit and a load of technical problems you must be fucking knackered!

There are a lot of forums where moderation is anonymous, outsourced and capricious and where 'the management' never ever deign to communicate honestly with site users, so thankyou for all your efforts and sorry we're such a pain in the arse at times. Smile

Thank you, PlentyOfPubeGardens Blush

We are indeed a little weary round the edges.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:35

@hathorisaskingaquestion

The problem is that there is perceived to be a double standard in the moderation applied by HQ.

Well, obviously that's not good, if it's a widely held perception.

We can only assure you that everyone is equal before the delete button.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:36

@TheSecondComing

He he he, ok, so,it's fair to say i am already up shit creek wrt my copybook, Someone might be picking on my posts to try and get me banned... Sad

That thread that was deleted the other night, the utter shitstorming one about rages... There were maybe 2 or 3 deleted posts out of HUNDREDS.

Why did the thread go. It wasn't even that robust (the discussion)

Fraid I've no idea. Had some time off cos my mum was rushed to hospital

But am sure we could find out and come back to you.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:40

@hathorisaskingaquestion

I think it's widely held from Mnetters I've talked to, Helen.

Some posters get away with stuff that would get ordinary ones like me deleted and banned quick smart and they are allowed to carry on.

Why?

Genuinely sorry to read that, Hath.

Obviously, we are only human - am sure we've made plenty of mistakes and misjudgements - but we do our level best to be fair and to hold our hands up when we've made a bad call.

That said, think you might be mightily surprised to know how many posters have had stern mails - or more - from us.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:42

@Hullygully

Hope your mum is ok Helen?

Thank you. She's not really. But thank you.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 04/07/2012 19:43

@UnicornRainbowLove

I've never had a stern email from you Helen.

Have you got a spare five minutes to give me a virtual tongue lashing?

It could be arranged. What norty things have you done?

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