Troll-hunting and subsequent Thread-ruining

[oneofsuesylvesterscheerios]

Yes, in some ways this is a thread about a thread, although its actually an interesting general point too. Plus, I don't want to carry on the discussion on the actual thread as it would be too damaging and would take it off in a completely different direction.

So... If a poster broke the rules and shouted troll, and then they were chastised (rightly) and the post removed, unless the offending surrounding comments reacting to the troll-hunt are removed too, the damage has been done surely?

We assume when someone posts regarding a personal trauma that they are telling the truth (well I hope we do) and if we suspect anything, we surely just ignore these days: we know the MN guidelines, etc.

And we know that certain situations in life happen to a lot of people (bereavement, loss, break-ups, etc). So when someone goes through a horrible time, the beauty of MN is that we don't just get sympathy and unmumsnetty hugs; we get empathy from folk who have been there themselves. We also often get bloody good advice, practical and emotional.

A thread that contains an accusation of troll-hunting is blindingly obvious even when the offending poster's comments have been removed. And thus, the damage is done.

When my dad died last I had some fantastic support from mnetters who'd suffered the loss of a parent and knew how 'rootless' it can make you. I'd have been confused and beyond upset if anyone had questioned my grief online. It doesn't matter how many positive posters there are on thread; just one snarky comment and the wave of a pitchfork is enough to send the OP packing, at a time when they might need the 'anonymous' support of MN most.

So, what I'm asking MN Towers is: if troll-hunting is banned, and it's fully acknowledged how damaging this could be on a thread that offers support to lots of people, often not just the OP, shouldn't all references and posts regarding an accusation be completely removed so the thread can remain intact and totally focused on the thread subject? Otherwise, it seems pointless.

I think it also depends on the definition of troll. That needs clarifying as well.

It's the fact that the troll hunters' power/authority on the site is currently not formally acknowledged that seems to be a big part of the problem.

don't be ridiculous.

OneofSue, you're right. its incredibly complex, and not as black and white as it seems. Ive called troll and been wrong. and felt dreadful about it. but I didnt call troll on CVQ even though my gut was screaming, and I feel dreadful about that. and the Hilllls thing, for me was just horrendous. the longterm effects on my health were terrible. I wish someone had given me a heads up.

Troll isn't called on every thread where someone name changes or posts about a contentious issue though.

Anyone who deliberately posts to wind other people up is a troll.

Lots of controversial threads are started by trolls ,not just the emotional ones.

Nah I don't think troll hunters should be able to delete threads or should have any power or authority.

Who wants the convicts running the prison?

It would cause chaos if anyone other than MNHQ were given the big red button.

Tbf, though, I found the other night as did another poster, that our reports of one word "Troll" ended up on the thread. it was not our intentions for this to happen we were both trying to report separate incidents of a particularly vile troll to HQ but were thwarted by the report function going into melt down.

In my opinion the Troll hunters are often long standing posters who have seen this all before and are just trying to protect the greater MN community. Although I am a re-reg I have so many trolls and been sucked in by a number in my early days. It was the people who were saying simply "Hang on a mo" That have actually made me wiser to the problem of trolls. And the damage they do.

I don't agree with some of the random shouting troll that has happened but some of the people who were most hang on a mo this doesn't add up have said on this thread they simply don't post any more on the threads. So I think the approach that HQ have on not tollerating shouting troll and dealing with it is started to work but it is young and there is nothing to say sometimes it isn't a sock shouting troll on a thread. Because that has happened in the past.

Trolls destroy the safety and sanctuary of mn
Troll-highlighters try to protect but innocents do get caught in the cross fire.

The only way to protect yourself entirely from trolls and being called a troll is to never post anything personal and never read anything personal. Would kill mn right off that would!

Caution and everything with an unhealthy pinch of salt.

"TheSlightlyScaryStalker Sun 08-Apr-12 11:17:52
Nah I don't think troll hunters should be able to delete threads or should have any power or authority.

Who wants the convicts running the prison? "

Not me.

And the SS troll who was a troll but then wasn't, but was still rather vile. That one was a very complicated one who did a fuck load of damage.

Actually what TSSS and Usual Said. ^

I was called a troll once when posting about a family problem - the 2 who did it were regular posters known to all on here and it was very distressing - particularly as they were also having an unpleaseant conversation about me on another thread about something else. Some troll threads are very obvious indeed ( recent one I noticed re infidelity) but I do thing that anyone who is not the Mumsnet norm is at risk of this.

Troll hunters do effectively delete threads already, in the sense that they close them down to further discussion.

But it would be a better outcome for a genuine OP if the thread disappeared altogether by deletion than that it be allowed to stand with all the troll accusations intact.

I disagree that it would be less upsetting to come back to find your thread gone than to come back to find someone had called you a troll.

I think breadbiscuit is pulling our leg.

There would be outrage if people could just delete threads.

on second thoughts lets do it

Oh

Baggsie first dibs on the red button. I'll let you have it back once I've deleted AIBU.

TSSS, ooooh, wouldn't that be nice!

I namedchanged and as I was very upset, alone and probably not making much sence as I was having a panic attack. I had no one in rl to turn to. I got lots of nastyness and little support on the thread due to troll hunting, as a result. The nasty posts were removed, the damage was done to my chances of getting any support by the time the posts were deteted.

Would you have preferred your thread to be deleted altogether, SophieNeveau, or to have it stand, even with the troll hunting posts deleted?

I would prefer to be given the benefit of doubt, have my thread stand and not be mocked and have nasty things said, poster self control.

My preference would be to have my thread deleted if it has been jumped all over by troll hunters. To me, it just feels humiliating to have sensitive information mocked.

Sophie, that sounds horrible, but since we are expected to accept that trolls are just one of those things, we must also accept that troll-hunting is the same.

I have no doubt that people have been a bit at some of my posts in the past, but, you know what? That's their problem. I reserve my indignation for the cause, not the symptom.

Interesting thread one

I have read with particular interest because I was one of those getting angry, saying troll hunters should report and give benefit of doubt. I'm seeing the other side of it.

I can see that many posters feel they have been affected by trolls and thus feel strongly enough to want to act.

However I have seen troll accusations on many threads which have remained and there has been nothing to suggest that the troll call was correct. I'd really hate Sophie's experience to be repeated for any poster who was in a stressful emotional situation.

I guess I'm coming from the pov of being someone who name changed a lot to protect my privacy on first joining. The circumstances I found myself in, were (to me even) unbelievable, complex and my own versions and responses did not fit with any reality I could have imagined. I say versions because I didn't really understand the full picture and what I thought about my life was being proved wrong. Had I kept the same name, people would have leapt upon me quoting a previous thread. To try and explain the fast moving, complex situation would have outed me. Equally I was a 'new' poster each time. I was also paranoid about being identified so I changed my story slightly to deflect that. I really valued MN wisdom and support. I was an emotional cripple.

Troll damage - can't imagine this myself but then I've not seen it. Maybe I do exercise healthy protective responses. I might believe posts or get 'sucked in' (as the troll hunters see it) but I don't feel damaged or emotionally involved with the threads on here. So I see no harm in the superficial single threads that offer support.

I do think MN either need to change their stance on troll hunting or be more pro active in preventing trolling AND troll hunting. At the moment both go on and the activities of both harm innocent posters it would appear. So the current system is not working?

I'd liken this a bit to the We believe you campaign.

To be in a situation causing you immense pain and not be believed just adds to it.

I'm beginning to agree with Usual wrt not believing anything on Relationships anymore.
There are two at the moment, very similar, which scream troll to me, and have only started in the last couple of days.

Have you reported them, LadyBeagleEyes? If you haven't, then you really should - MNHQ can have a look at them in their 'early stages' and see if the poster is legit or not. The longer a thread runs, the more damaging, potentially, they are.