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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Tik Tok is leaving MN as a result of the Milupa advertisement on the home page.

445 replies

moondog · 23/08/2005 18:33

Please good MN people,see sense!
Whodo we really need more,Tik Tok or bloody Aptamil????

This board will lose so much if she goes......

C'mone ladies,add your voice!

OP posts:
ks · 23/08/2005 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

alux · 23/08/2005 23:08

trading standards

if you want to complain

MNHQ
carriemumsnet · 23/08/2005 23:12

Hi all

We've been reading all your comments with interest and really appreciate the honest feedback and the variety of views on this issue.

As Justine said previously, a while back we consulted members on what was and wasn't acceptable as far as advertisers go and what we took away from that dialogue was that the majority felt it was Ok to accept advertising from formula companies but not sponsorship.

We can see now that quite a few members clearly feel more strongly about the Aptamil campaign than we had anticipated and a few are evidently very upset and of course we're sorry about this - and particularly sad if it means we lose valuable members. However we have now accepted this campaign (and again as Justine said they're paying us a not inconsiderable amount of money) and we're committed to continuing with it for the next couple of months - so be warned there's more to come!

In an ideal world we'd love to have a mumsnet free of all ads, banners, adverorial etc, but the brutal fact is that if we had to rely on subs mumsnet wouldn't exist. We've been through the reasons why we don't want to make subs compulsory several times, so advertising is our next best option.

Our advertising policy is not set in stone though and we do take all your views very seriously and will bear them in mind when discussing future ad policy - which is what Justine was talking about when she said we'd regroup and discuss when she's back from hols. So please continue to make your views known - either way - so we know what you're thinking.

Many thanks

hunkermunker · 23/08/2005 23:12

Bye all.

alux · 23/08/2005 23:15

oh no. not hm too!!!

giraffeski · 23/08/2005 23:21

Message withdrawn

marthamoo · 23/08/2005 23:24

Having witnessed all the humdingers of rows that have ensued on here on practically every thread that contains the words "breast and bottle feeding" I can't believe the Mumsnet team didn't realise this advertisement would be contentious. It will blow over in time but it's really sad to see tiktok and hunker leave because of it.

mears · 23/08/2005 23:26

I must admit I am really saddened by this whole affair. I do not attend study days that are financed by formula companies and it does not sit well with me that mumsnet are accepting a substantial amount of money for carrying this advert. There are other major adverisors out there which do not have this negative baggage for new mums.

I am not prepared to go into this discussion again. Yes mothers need unbiased information but this is not what Milupa is doing. They are ploughing money into mumsnet because they have a huge market they will reap the rewards from.

Carriemumsnet just posted:

"However we have now accepted this campaign (and again as Justine said they're paying us a not inconsiderable amount of money) and we're committed to continuing with it for the next couple of months - so be warned there's more to come! "

Be warned - there's more to come? If so, I will have to join Tiktok. How very

MNHQ
carriemumsnet · 23/08/2005 23:28

Mears

I just meant more of this campaign - not others. Sorry if that was unclear.

Really hope you can manage to stick with us.

Blossomhill · 23/08/2005 23:28

I have to say I cannot believe how upset people are over this. At the end of the day we all have our own minds and so what we want with our babies and that's our right as parents.

No amount of advertising is going to persuade anyone to feed their baby in a way they don't want to.

beetroot · 23/08/2005 23:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Ladymuck · 23/08/2005 23:37

As I've posted on another thread, it will only be by losing certain "key" members that the economics change and the ad becomes less financially attractive. I too would hate to see Tiktok and/or Mears leave, but I totally support them for doing so. If I thought that I gave even the tiniest fraction of positive input that those two do, then I'd be off too.

Caligula · 23/08/2005 23:42

Blossomhill, that's just not true.

If you read the original thread, I've explained why I think that the subliminal message which formula companies as a whole promote, that of "there is so little difference between breast and bottle ... it's so near as dammit... " did actually persuade me to use a feeding method I didn't want to.

And I am not stupid, or ignorant or uninformed. But I was vulnerable and desperate. And the subliminal mesage which I had absorbed over 36 years, was successful.

Blossomhill · 23/08/2005 23:48

I just think that talking personally nothing would persuade me to do what I didn't want to do.

tiktok · 23/08/2005 23:50

I am leaving, but there are some points I want to clarify:

  • I am very grateful for the posts expressing regret and support and understanding
  • I also appreciate the fact that mumsnet people are listening and willing to review
  • I am not 'flouncing'. The only reason I posted I was leaving is because sometimes, people ask me directly for a contribution, and if I am around, I do respond
  • I am certainly not 'blackmailing' - as if!! the situation is simply one of ethics, not for me as an individual exactly (or not primarily) but for me as an NCT counsellor - I have to work according to the WHO code on the marketing of breastmilk substitutes, which proscribes (among other things) unsolicited direct contact between formula manufacturers and mothers, and comparisons between breastmilk and formula. This is a condition of remaining registered as an NCT bfc. The ad, the website and the internet community being set up by Milupa contravenes much of this (and other parts of the code). Now, contributing to MN as often as I do and using my skills, knowledge and training gained from NCT makes me feel Miliupa is in some ways using me (albeit in a small way) as part of their campaign/PR/image enhancement...it's the association* with MN they are paying what we have been told is a lot of money over quite some period of time. I cannot, ethically, be a part of that
  • it follows I can't stay here and 'spread the word' as aloha (well-meaningly, I know) suggests, sort of fighting from within. I am not an evangelist for breastfeeding and my work doesn't involve fighting....in any case, I can't really compete with the loads of money and high profile Milupa offers
  • the issue (pur-lease.....) has nothing to do with women's right to choose formula feeding, the fact some women end up formula feeding when it isn't their choice to do so, whether breastfeeding is rammed down people's throats or whatever. Read my posts on how I see the whole marketing angle and again, the ethics of it
  • I am in favour of women getting as much information as they want/need about formula. They are unlikely to get independent info from a formula company, and, sadly, from their health visitors, who on the whole are poortly trained in all aspects of infant feeding. I am mystified why some people posting here equate advertising and PR with 'information'
  • to repeat - these ads are not to persuade anyone to use Milupa, especially, at least not in the short term. They are part of a longer, insidious, expensive and well-thought out marketing strategy to build a brand, and they are using tactics which are sailing very close to the wind, in terms of the UK Law, and which certainly break the WHO code

I don't necessarily think other people, even those who get what I am on about, should leave the site. The issue of leaving is important to me, because of my 'job' (hah!) as an NCT bfc.

I will keep an eye on MN to see if anything changes, and if it does, I may well come back!

Tortington · 23/08/2005 23:54

but its the way of the world girlies. this site is not a charity. it runs for profit. it is oneday going to be so great and moneyspinning that justine and carrie and et al ( whoever she is ) will be able to retire at 47 with a yacht in bermuda.

thats why i have the heebies about paying subs. its not a charity - if it were a charity it would be more clear cut. the analogy that comes to my mind is like paying your licence fee to the bbc whilst still watching adverts on ITV. ( only there is no element of choice with the tv because in a world where capitalism is king we are forced to pay a license fee becuase high brow people tell me whilst appearing ont he bbc that we will lose all culture) you cant have culture and capitalism come on! so same with mnet, its a business.

Caligula · 23/08/2005 23:55

Well lucky you.

You weren't in my situation then, when 36 years of propaganda plus a starving baby and a discreetly bullying HV, persuaded me to use a feeding method I didn't want to use.

And I believe that there are many women in this country who are persuaded to use a feeding method they don't want to, by a similar combination of factors (and other factors of course).

Tortington · 23/08/2005 23:56

( sorry forgot this bit) ..so as with anyone tik tok is bang on - you wouldnt shop at tesco if you had a moral disagreement, you would take your custom elsewhere.

WideWebWitch · 24/08/2005 07:11

I wish mumsnet would reconsider. Losing Tiktok AND mears would be awful. And this advertiser is paying a large amount of money to mumsnet because they think it will work: they think they will reach a large no of new mums that way! There's no way they would pay 'a not inconsiderable amount of money' otherwise. This ad leaves a very bad taste in my mouth and the more I think about it the more I dislike it. Yes, mumsnet is a business but actually, I don't buy from unethical businesses where possible (i.e. I really try not to buy from Nestle) so if I follow my own principles I shouldn't be renewing my mumsnet subscription either or coming here either, given that they are taking money from a formula company and accepting advertorial. I take the point that subs aren't the bulk of the income but I still think we're entitled to be hacked off that access to mumsnetters can be bought so easily, given the controversy this was bound to arouse.

Original poster
moondog · 24/08/2005 07:17

I'm off too www. It's fucking disgraceful.I thought I'd found a little oasis of intelligence amidst the crap on the internet.

I was wrong.

I've coughed up £50 for the last 10 months of tremendous fun I've had and I'm signing out.

My contribution is insignificant compared to that of tiktok and mears,but as well as all the dross I've written,I'd like to think I've extended the hand of solidarity to those tackling the tough job of breastfeeding. It is tough,I know,I've been there.

Bloody formula ads don't help anyone.

Money makes the world go 'round eh?

Bye girls,it's been good to talk!

OP posts:
cod · 24/08/2005 07:20

Message withdrawn

katierocket · 24/08/2005 07:31

don't go Mears

Caligula · 24/08/2005 07:43

Moondog. Will miss you.

Aragon · 24/08/2005 07:44

"Further they are offering some interesting events for mums..."

You can bet they are offering "interesting events" for mums - anything to further promote their brand and assure anyone who'll listen that they are "as close to breastmilk as possible"

"...... and naturally paying mumsnet a not insignificant amount for doing it - one that really will pay the server bills for a good few months."

Of course they're paying a good amount - all that access to parents.

Once again I have no issue with Mumsnet for taking an ad which keeps this useful and informative site up and running. My issue is not with mumsnet and never has been - it's with Milupa and their underhand way of marketing their milk to a section of society they had agreed not to advertise to. They are in the wrong NOT Mumnset

mumtosomeone · 24/08/2005 07:48

not having read the posts or the advert I just want to ask...and I hold my breath knowing this will cause a ruction!!!
If a women cant b/f what should she do?
Can she come on mn?
Does she not need formula or is someone going to sell ebm or wet nurse her baby?
Is the advert so misleading?