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Original poster

double buggy or tandem

258 replies

susanita · 19/01/2003 13:50

Hi
I'm expecting nr2 in May when my son will be just over 2 years old. I doubt he'll be able to walk for long periods of time so I'm considering buying a cheapish double buggy or tandem.
I've heard that tandems can be a problem because the heavy child sits in the front and this can make it difficult to go up & down kerbs etc. I'm concerned about a double buggy 'cos of the width and being able to get through doors (and whether my 2 year old will fit nicely in the seat).
Does anyone have experience of one/either/both or could anyone recommend either double buggy or tandem. I know that there are reviews on the site but it's just confused me more.
Thanks

OP posts:
kaz33 · 01/04/2003 11:34

Elliott

Must admit not really sure how the Kiwi will cope with baby and toddler up and down stairs - we have two flights, so probably not such an issue for you. Certainly my boy is used to being bounced up the stairs - not only in a good supension prams but also in a cheap Maclaren stroller. What ever you choose it is going to be hard work - probably you couldn't do it with a pram with toddler seat attached or a tandem.

Remember your 2 year old will be able to walk up the stairs - my 20 month old can walk up the stairs if you hold his hand and he uses the wall for balance and he is not that tall ( 25th centile ). By the time he is 2 years I don't think he should have any problem. I suspect that what you will need to do is to get your DS to get used to walking up the stairs - should be fine as long as you don't live on a busy road I would have thought.

As you have some time to think about it I suspect the best thing to do is see if you can look at some options in the flesh.

monkey · 01/04/2003 12:39

elliot - mine is the older model, but you can't use a buggy board with mine - there isn't anywhere for the toddler to put thier head as the gap bwn top of seat & handle too small. maybe the newer models are different?

It might be physically the same weight, but you can push the Kiwi with one hand with a 2 & a 3 yr old with no problem. you could run easily if you were so inclined. Believe me, you will need all your physical strength to push a heavily-laden tandem - it's just beyond comparison. You need both hands, strong muscles and a will to succeed!

I have defintely seen toddler seats on the Quinny (pram bit) (& buggy boards) - I'll ask if I'm feeling brave next time I'm in the park, or in a baby shop & I'll certainly keep my eye out for the double stroller woman.

elliott · 01/04/2003 13:12

thanks again monkey

Cha · 01/04/2003 14:51

Elliot / monkey - I have a Quinny 3 wheeler and I LOATHE it. It is like driving a tank, really heavy and cumbersome. Mine doesn't have a swivel wheel, so maybe a swivelling Quinny might be better. But I would never buy one again - the only thing it's good for is collecting firewood; it's so strong you can pile logs all over it, plus child sitting amongst it all, which was a real bonus after we had the gale a few months ago. Very hard wearing, are Quinny's, so hard wearing that you can't even use the excuse that it's on its last legs to go out and buy a new one. Unless of course you have another child - buggy boards don't fit on them!

elliott · 01/04/2003 14:55

Cha, thanks for the inside info - we do sometimes need to collect firewood, but it might be a rather pricey option
have you definitely decided on the kiwi explorer?

monkey · 02/04/2003 12:10

I'd second cha's comment about a swivel wheel - I could not be bothered with anything that had fixed wheels.

The other good thing about the explorer of course, as I'm now finding is that it converts back to the single. Very useful. Otherwise my elder son would never walk.

Cha · 02/04/2003 15:15

Yes, elliot - am in email conversation with Kiwi Dad and his father (owner of winkalotts) and will be ordering one soon. What one earth will I do with the tank? I'd hate to pass it on to anyone who knew me. Maybe a NCT nearly new sale? How do I get hold of someone who organises them?

florenceuk · 02/04/2003 16:24

Get Winkalotts to donate to Mumsnet! On the tax thing, when I imported a buggy, Winkalotts declared it as a gift(!) and I didn't pay any duty...

edgarcat · 02/04/2003 16:28

Message withdrawn

kaz33 · 02/04/2003 16:42

Ah the "gift" idea explains how much duty I had to pay - ah well !

willum · 06/04/2003 20:35

Sorry I have not been on all week. I too was paraniod about handing over all my details but it was all fine. As you now know Allan is Rodney (kiwidads) Dad. I rang the shop and gave Allan the card details over the phone and it was with me in about 10 working days.

If you want the Kiwi Explorer but also want the luxury of a flat pram get the child lifter - it looks so cosy. It's basically like a material moses basket that sits on the flat newborn section.

It's never too early to look at doubles! - I haven't evern managed to concieve no.2 yet (though not for lack of trying!).

guddy · 08/04/2003 16:16

hi kaz33 and willum
The kiwi explorer sounds good for me as i have 27 month and a 3 month old.Iam just confused as to does all models have a new born thing in it or is it different model which do newborn ready pack.I probably may not need a newborn attachment coz by the time i decide to buy dd2 may not require it!Do any uk stockist stock them?Just wondering if 2 similar aged toddlers can sit in them?

kaz33 · 08/04/2003 16:46

The idea is that it is a single buggy which can take babies from newborn and can then be easily adapted to be a double buggy. As a double buggy it can fit either a newborn and toddler or two toddlers. The big difference is price - the basic model is about £250 - if you add the newborn/doubles kit then it comes in at around £300.

Unfortuantely, there are no UK stockists - so it has to be imported from NZ/Australia/USA or indeed some European countries.

The best thing is to look at the website. If you look further down this thread you will find a link from Florence to the NZ website - which should give you an idea of what they look like in practice.

BearintheBigBlueHous · 23/04/2003 10:24

Kaz/Willum/Florence/Monkey etc, have followed this thread with interest as no.2 is on the way in October (dd will be 23 months then). Having looked on the Phil & Ted site at the Kiwi Explorer Double, can't tell which handle you push the buggy with when the double seat is fitted - is it the one on that seat? If so it looks a lot lower than the main handle and being quite tall, I don't want to spend £££ importing one to find it's too uncomfortable to use - can you help please. Do you/dh's find it comfortable?

willum · 24/04/2003 13:36

Hi.

The handle you use is the one on the top seat. It actually has two height positions. I normally use it on the lower one, but that is a bit short for dh, so when I know he is going to use it a lot I put it on the higher one.

This is our 4th pushchair and its the only one the dh has actualy said he likes. We took it to the IOW camping last weekend and to France this weekend just gone and it coped with every thing really well (the mud,grass,steep hills, cobbles, feries, in and out the car all the time and there was also plenty of space still in the boot for all our stuff).

HTH

BearintheBigBlueHous · 24/04/2003 23:42

thanks Willum - that helps, ta

elliott · 28/04/2003 09:58

so, any more feedback or comments from the kiwi explorer pioneers, now that you've been using them a while? Has anyone actually tried putting a baby in the newborn bit?
I'm still keen to get one but won't order anything till I hit that magic 13 week mark. So any more info would be much appreciated!

kaz33 · 28/04/2003 11:51

Hi Elliot

The buggy is great for DS, really easy to push and he is very comfortable. I have even caught him closing his eyes in it, which is very unusual for him. The shopping basket is not huge and as i am so disorganised I always end trying to shove lots of stuff in there. With DS I had a big based M&P's pram which had loads of room, so probably always going to come out unfavourably against that. Other than that I don't really have any complaints.

Haven't tried newborn section yet as DS2 is not due for another 4/5 weeks !! Will let you know when i get to that point.

Good luck on the 13 week milestone.

Cha · 28/04/2003 12:43

Mine is ordered and in this country but we can't seem to get hold of it... long, frustrating story. Anyway, as soon as we do get our mitts on it, and get it assembled, I will post again with a review. I see that I will have to pay £73.57 VAT which is horrendous. Sigh.

elliott · 28/04/2003 12:45

Cha, I remember willum didn't have to pay VAT - but also, aren't prams zero rated anyway? Or doesn't that apply to imported goods?
Hope you get hold of it soon...what's the problem??

kaz33 · 28/04/2003 13:15

Cha, that is roughly what I had to pay on VAT and delivery charges
Willum did not have to pay so much as her pram was defined as a gift. We bought through different companies.

I decided not to check the position on VAT, but it might be worth checking with Customs & Excise as to whether prams are zero rated, as they are after all baby items. Or thinking about it ask the post office, they should know.

Tinker · 28/04/2003 22:33

Prams are not zero-rated when sold in the UK by a VAT registered trader.

If buying from outside the EC the goods will be subject to Import VAT

3 What is import VAT?

Import VAT is the transaction tax levied on imported goods. Goods are treated as imported when:

they arrive in the UK directly from outside the EC and you enter them for home use in the UK, or customs duty otherwise becomes chargeable on them; or
they have been placed in another EC member State, or in the UK, under one of the customs arrangements listed in Appendix B and you enter them for removal to home use in the UK, or customs duty otherwise becomes chargeable on them.
In short, the moment when customs duty is due on the goods is the time of importation for VAT purposes. Import VAT includes VAT due on goods imported for the purpose of business, private importations and importations by partially exempt traders.

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kaz33 · 29/04/2003 11:46

Thanks Tinker.

Just got a puncture so had to go and buy a repair kit today. I assume a bike repair kit will suffice, I'll get DP to look at it.

Cha · 29/04/2003 22:37

Oh screaming frustration!!!!!!! The Kiwi Explorer finally arrived (had to wait in ALL DAY with stir crazy toddler) and dp and I have spent a glorious 3 hours trying to splice it together. I even missed Eastenders, Holby City and Life of Grime, which is my top night for TV. Who wrote the instruction manual? Who did the drawings? What pure hell. We worked it out better by looking at the miniscule photos of the prams in the brochure that was thrown in. AND Houston, we have a problem. The wheel, when in swivel mode, handily drops out whenever you lift the front of the pram. Sure this can't be right. Have emailed the company for immediate replacement!
As for the newborn bit - scary. It's bit like putting your bestest newborn baby feet first into a canvas bag, isn't it? Still s/he will only be there for 3 months and I am comforting myself by saying they can't see much at that age and tend to sleep in the pram anyway........ Hey ho. Anyway, once we get it back to single buggy status (another 2 to 3 hours) hopefully me and dd will be able to test run it tomorrow. She's already climbed in and looked very pleased with herself. At least she's impressed. More anon.

BearintheBigBlueHous · 30/04/2003 10:22

Please keep us updated Cha. By the way, how much did it cost you in total?