double buggy or tandem

[susanita]

Hi
I'm expecting nr2 in May when my son will be just over 2 years old. I doubt he'll be able to walk for long periods of time so I'm considering buying a cheapish double buggy or tandem.
I've heard that tandems can be a problem because the heavy child sits in the front and this can make it difficult to go up & down kerbs etc. I'm concerned about a double buggy 'cos of the width and being able to get through doors (and whether my 2 year old will fit nicely in the seat).
Does anyone have experience of one/either/both or could anyone recommend either double buggy or tandem. I know that there are reviews on the site but it's just confused me more.
Thanks

How low is the baby in the little seat on the e3?
Can you get any shopping in the basket if there is a toddler in the little seat? Is there more room in the older model explorer duluxe? Does anyone know? Can you use the double storm cover as a single or do you need to buy both? Can you recline toddler with baby underneath? Also does the toddler have a bar under the back of their thighs at the end of the seat? Also how much did it cost from nz? I'm expecting baby no.3 at xmas when dd2 will be 2 and a half . Thank god dd1 is 8 and a half! But I'm very confused about which double to get. I had though about getting a double chassis for my britax classicale things to fit on but it has to come from france and is as long as the m+p duette but without steerable wheels i don't know now. I have been reading about the kiwi explorer and now i need to know more. How are you all getting on with it?
Thanks

I got in touch with Kiwi Dad and asked very similar questions. My questions and his replies follow - I hope they help.

1. If I was to use the doubles kit with the newborn cocoon, how long (approx.) would the baby be able to be in this?

2. the cocoon length is about 34" and your baby won't really out-grow the cocoon; its more that he/she will want to be sitting up at about 3-4 months. Because the e3 lies flat when in the newborn position, the cocoon is not necessary - its just really useful because you can put your baby in and out of the buggy without, hopefully, disturbing him/her

3. Is the newborn cocoon transferable between the two seats, i.e. if my son decided he wanted to walk, could I switch the baby between the two?

4. when the buggy is set up in the newborn/toddler position you would remove the front seat (using two zippers) to convert back to the newborn single position (its easy and quick). Then just zip the seat back into the buggy to convert back to the newborn/toddler position. To explain it another way the newborn always rests in the same position irrespective of whether the buggy is a single or double

5. What are the handlebar heights?

6. the handlebar has two positions so it can be set at either 39" or 43" from the ground (its easy to switch between the two). The second seat handlebar is not really used for pushing (except for your kids) and I use it to pull the kids up stairs

7. How does the buggy fold and can it fold while it is a double?

8. in the newborn/toddler position just pull two knobs out (one on either side of the buggy) and lift by the napper/fender bar - about 3 seconds and it collapses completely. In the toddler/toddler position you can fold it with the second seat in but its bulky so just take the second seat out (there are two spring loaded 'nibs' on either side of the second seat frame that you push to release) and then fold the buggy as before

9. Can the double storm/UV covers be used when the buggy is a single buggy or would I have to buy both sets?

10. you can use the double cover (either UV/Sun or Storm) when in the single position but there's more 'fabric' at the back of the buggy. The single covers roll up under the canopy when they are not being used so that makes it easy to carry and store

11. Is it possible to unzip the cocoon if the baby is in the second seat (without taking the cocoon out) and the sun comes out?

12. unzipping the cocoon while its in the buggy may be a little tricky but it can be done

13. Isn't there a danger of catching one's legs against the second seat when it is fully reclined?

14. the second seat doesn't recline (its a fixed position) and surprisingly it doesn't interfere with walking or running (that's a really common question and yet once people use the buggy its not a problem)

He was really helpful and came back with the answers very quickly. He sells through eBay and offered to mark the buggy as 'gift' on the customs form which offers a huge saving, although it's still pricey.

We're sticking with our already purchased double Mountain Buggy. I think DH likes the idea of walking down the street showing off his brood rather than the gadgets of the Explorer. Actually, he's just said it's because he 'doesn't want another bloomin' buggy in the house'. Ah well...

Hi - sorry to be dense but I am on the verge of ordering an E3 double (for my 1 mnth old and 23 mnth old) and wanted to be sure about a couple of things before I fling myself further into debt!

1. Am I right in thinking that the newborn/toddler set-up is included in the basic doubles kit and that to use with a newborn you don't need to buy the cocoon unless you want to?

2. I live in windy, rainy Edinburgh and will be using the E3 on a daily basis in the doubles configuration - in terms of accessories will I be okay just ordering the double storm cover, the double sun cover and the panniers or do I need anything else? Should I also be getting a cosy-toes type thing for my youngest - there seem to be several available and I'm not sure what's what - does anyone know what the difference is between the various types?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

zippy

1. The newborn kit can be used without any addition certainly in the old version.

2. We have the double storm cover and that is fine for both the single and double set up. I have the red/blue cosytoes - I think the big difference is how warm they are, as I recall the sleeping bag is for very cold weather. I choose the mid range on the basis that if was that cold we would be at home or take a taxi.

Thanks Kaz - that's really helpful. Can I just ask one more thing (well, two actually ...).

1. Where does the double storm cover go when not in use - I know the single one tucks under the buggy hood but does the double cover have to be stored unnattached?

2. Also - in the newborn/toddler set-up - is there any under buggy storage space (I know there isn't in the two toddler set-up). I'm asking cause the panniers aren't available in charcoal (my colour!) until November and I'm wondering can I do without them for that long - given that I'll be using the newborn/toddler set up until around then.

Argggg!! I can't believe I'm this excited about a buggy - I couldn't sleep last night for thinking about it. How sad is that?

1. The double rain cover can be stored in the hood - however, unless rain is imminent it is easier to store it in the bottom of the buggy.

2. There is even less space when the newborn wings are attached. It is not good for storage in any of its incarnations.

Hi Have just received my new explorer and was wondering if you would be allowed to take this on a flight? would you be allowed to take it to the gate or would it have to be checked in? also what are the chances of it getting damaged(thinking about ordering the travel bag for it)?

Thanks

nicm, can't see any reason why you couldn't treat the explorer like any other stroller. We took our mountain buggy to the gate, which is quite a bit less compact than an explorer folded. However couldn't always guarantee getting it back at the arrival gate. When the explorer is set up with the toddler seat though I don't think it will fold down compactly without taking the seat off, so you might want a bag for then to keep all the bits together. But I would be reluctant to check it in a bag in case they send it down the carousel, if you know what I mean - if you do, make sure it is marked fragile.

I've written before about the uses of the buggy bag but it does tend to come on the carousel at the other end which can be a pain.

I thought last time that I would photocopy a picture of the buggy and write something suitable in the language of the country I was flying to and stick that on the bag. Hopefully, it might mean you get it back as you get off!

Thanks for the replies florenceuk and gem13. i'm going to amsterdam in february with easyjet and wasn't sure about bringing it, although don't fancy taking the daytripper as too many tram lines, cobbled streets, etc to get stuck in!! will only be using it as single on this trip but was just wondering as well, if something does happen to it can i claim from the airline or from my travel insurance?

Thanks.

THe E3 is now avaliable in the UK - see Stratfordstrollers.com - retailing at £425 with the doubles kit.

Well, after much deliberation and research (and studying of this thread) I finally plucked up the courage to order an e3 Kiwi Explorer and it arrived today! I've got the doubles kit as number 2 is due in about 8 weeks. Just been round the block with ds to test drive and I'm really happy with it. Not so happy with Parcelforce who are a complete waste of space delivering the package! The only thing I can't work out is how to collapse the buggy and will have to wait for dp to come home from work. Still ds is using it as a climbing frame at the moment and seems happy so no worries! I'll try and post a picture over the weekend if I get a chance.

Where did you get it from and how much was it? Did you have to pay vat? Thanks.

I ordred it via KiwiKid which is actually based in Sausalito, California. I read thru the various postings on this thread as well to get a good appreciation of the features.

I checked out a number of websites:

BabyMall
Winkalots
KiwiKids

before ordering and emailed each for their best price on a shopping list consisting of the double buggy plus a number of accessories. I then did a spreadsheet to compare costs (not easy in 3 different currencies!)

I was in contact with Rodney Anderson at Kiwi-Kid ([email protected]) who was really helpful answering any questions I had before ordering. The actual buggy was shipped from the manufactuer in New Zealand and it took about 10 days to reach me. I had to pay VAT on the total.

The buggy is fab! No complaints at all with buggy or customer service! I'm 35 weeks pregnant with number 2 and the buggy is so easy to push with ds1 sitting in it. Hope this helps you!

PS I understand from a recent posting on this thread that there is somewhere in the UK that now ships the Explorer e3 buggy. It may be worth checking this out to save the international shipping option. I also found out thru surfing that Phil and Teds (the manufacturer) recently exhibited at a UK trade fair on nursery goods so it looks like there is a chance that some other retailers in the UK might be interested!

Dozy mare! I forgot to put down how much!

US Dollars:
e3 Explorer Double, including e3 Explorer Doubles Kit (Charcoal/Black) -
US$330
e3 Cocoon (Charcoal/Black) - US$50
e3 Double Storm Cover - US$35
e3 Double UV/Sun Cover - US$45
e3 BacPac X (Charcoal/Black) - US$35
e3 Travel bag - US$55
Shipping/Insurance - US$120
Discount - (US$35)

Total - US$635

Just waiting for the bacpac which was out of stock.

Hi,
Can anyone help me? I have just bought the newest Phil & Ted explorer and have read the buggy warnings and safety notices. I got a rude shock to see that it warns you not to push a child in the rear seat of a buggy without a heavier child being in the front seat. This doesn't seem to be too practical! What if my older toddler decides to get out of the front seat for a walk? Will this make the buggy unstable with younger child in the back? My older child is always getting in and out of her pram when we are walking around the shops so i'm not sure how we'll get around this problem.

Another question is where do you put your nappy bag when using either the newborn/toddler position or two toddlers position? It looks like you can't hang it off the handlebars as the younger baby may get hit in the face! Use a backpack?
Thanks.

Hi - sorry I didn't see you message before I started a new thread on this - hopefully someone can give us some advice!

Thanks. How are things going with it now? Any problems? I'm really worried about the low back seat and storage.

Hi Melitaaus

I use the kiwi explorer for a 3yo and a 6 month old. if the 3 yo wants to get out and the baby is sleeping i put the bacpac in the front seat and this helps even out the weight, though not as stable as with both kids. i have aslo used it for a 4 yo and 3yo and had to take the 3yo out of back seat before 4yo out of front seat. with the toddler seat on i either carry the bacpac or if its dry set it in the hood.

hope this helps

Claire

Thanks Claire for passing on your experiences. I'll give your ideas a go when no. 2 arrives. Thanks again, melitaaus.

Thanks for this brilliantly useful discussion, it made me join mumsnet. I've got a 1mth baby and a 16mth toddler and at the moment am coping with a sling/buggy combo but will need to move on soon as my back is killing me already. I was wondering about trying to find a secondhand Emmaljunga, any ideas if you can bounce them down stairs? We live on the first floor with a groundfloor lobby that you couldn't leve a child in whilst you got the buggy inside, and my toddler is still a bit wobbly going down stairs (up is ok). Our flat is also very small so would be interested to know how big they are when folded (do they fold up with the toddler seat attached?). We live near Old Street in London, so jennifersofia if you are still near Liverpool street I would love to see your buggy in action if the offer is still open. Any other suggestions would be extremely welcome, we are on quite a tight budget so it would have to be something we could get second hand. Please don't say a tandem, we were given a free one and I couldn't get it up the stairs, it was a nightmare and was brilliantly designed so that everytime you came to a kerb you bashed your shins on an exposed bit of metal. Any ideas at all welcome, thanks.

Melitaus - I have a kiwi and what I have done re the problem when bigger kid wants / has to get out is strap the bacpac onto the front step of the buggy as nicm does. At first when ds was newborn, I just had a big bottle of water in there but now he is bigger (8weeks) I put a house brick in the front to balance it up a bit. I suppose I will have to keep adding house bricks until it looks like a hod carrier... I thought it would make the buggy heavier and therefore more difficult to handle, but it is just the opposite. The weight over the front wheel makes it somehow easier to manouver, sure there's some physics reason to this, but hey, who cares? It just works better. Love my Kiwi x

Are Kiwi explorers available second hand? I have never seen them advertised anywhere, but you all seem to love them. Where would I look?

I've been avidly reading through all the talk about the kiwi explorer buggies. I've been lusting after one of these since I found them shortly after ds was born but my parents had just bought us an all-singing-all-dancing M&P 3-in-1 and so I felt too guilty to buy one. Ds is now just over a year old and I've just got the M&P back down from the loft as the weather is getting cold and I want him to be snugger than in the flimsy little umbrella fold buggy we've been carting him round all summer in. But having been out for just one walk, I've remembered why I banished it to the loft in the first place. Having given up even trying to take the M&P anywhere in the car pretty early on, dh's main criteria is a buggy small enough that you could put it in the car boot and fit in enough other baby clutter for a week away somewhere. Mine is something easy and light to push. We had agreed that as soon as I got pg with #2, we would get an explorer but we are now having to consider ds being an only child ...but I still fancy an explorer...or a 3 wheeler of some sort..and if I only ever have ds this is my only chance to get one ! Is it still a good 3-wheeler buggy in its own right as a single buggy or are there better single buggies? How does it compare to the Mac 3? Could we fit it and a load of other stuff in the car boot? How cosy is it for winter? I'd really appreciate any advice.

pookiemum - I've only been using the explorer as a single buggy so far. I'd say it seems lighter, narrower and more manoevrable than friends' 3 wheelers I've seen. I'm not a big 3 wheeler conniseur though, only got this one because of the double option. It is quite narrow though (this is the e3 not the older style explorer) and I wonder if a broader child than my ds might be less comfortable?
It folds reasonably small, we have a focus estate though so fitting it in isn't a huge issue.

Cha - how do you fit the backpack 'ballast' onto the front step? Do you have the matching backpack, or would any small bag do? I did think that maybe with it set up for newborn and toddler, there wouldn't be an issue with balance since it is effectively the same set up as for a newborn on its own.