Too Small

[ScottishZoe]

Am I Being Unreasonable in finding men with less than 5 inches in both length and girth just far too small?

I do prefer a good 7-8", and 6"+ is still good, and I can work with 5"+ although it's not really that great.

But for under 5" I find to be just too small and coupled with slim girth, almost a case of "Is it in yet?"

Does anyone else find that a man can be packing just too little?

@Rocaille

Great post.
Yes in reality above average at 6-7" is probably best for me, fantasy reasons for me saying 7-8".

Though to avoid girl inches issue, I'll use references to hand, palm of my hand, etc that I can then use a tape measure later, and of course have toys to help guage size.

Though I'm sure if you whipped out a tape measure, I'm guessing you would categorise 4" as too small.

But yes regardless of what some of the posters are packing, a lot of SDE in this thread.

This thread certainly won't encourage women to communicate their preferences and help reduce the orgasm gap. Perhaps men are happy with that gap?

It seems Alongwayfromeverything is right, the cervix can’t be penetrated. It says it’s too small to be penetrated and only opens up during childbirth.

As far as I am aware, nobody has suggested that the cervix can be penetrated by a penis.

@Seamills

The thing is, how many women would be able to comfortably accommodate 7-8 inches, I can imagine it would involve some bashing on the cervix, which can be painful!

My husband has 8 inches. I measured after reading one of the previous MN threads on the same topic. Unless I get a stab directly on my cervix (very rare) it isn’t painful at all. And yes, it goes all the way in way past the cervix.

I must admit that I was a bit intimidated when I first saw it but it has never been a problem. It also manages to hit a spot right at the back beyond the cervix which I never felt before.

You mentioned here, it (your partners penis) manages to hit the spot at the back and beyond the cervix.

I just wish I could help woman understand how big of an issue this can be and how much hurt they can cause.

I'm sorry you had those painful experiences, Mr Jones, and am glad you've overcome them. However, women do understand what it's like to have their bodies scrutinized and found wanting, and how this can affect sexual confidence. The list of things that can be 'wrong' with a female body is never ending: too fat, too thin, boobs too small, boobs too saggy, too hairy, too wobbly, too stretch-marked, too wrinkled, too loose, too old, too ugly, on and on and on.

Frankly, it's a miracle that any women ever has the courage to sleep with a new partner. And the really sad thing is that, when she does, the sex is probably going to be wack and she probably won't come. Whereas men always get theirs. She'll have exposed herself to potential pregnancy, disease, sexual violence and trauma for a big fat nothing in return! This is the orgasm gap that both the OP and I have referred to.

We're not talking about dick preferences to be nasty and hurt men's feelings. We're trying to work out what we need to enjoy sex to the max and be fully satisfied by our partners. It's a shame there aren't more female-only spaces on the internet where women could talk about this in private as, I agree, men aren't likely to get anything out of these conversations other than a complex. However, whenever women set up a space on internet, men decide they also want to be there, so...

It would be great if the conversation was more nuanced. A big cock's not going be preferred by all women and, besides, a lot more than size goes into making a good cock, e.g. curvature, vasculature, presence/absence of foreskin, etc, not to mention the man it's attached to! However, every time a woman tentatively expresses a preference, she's immediately shouted down with 'you're loose, your vagina's so busted you need surgery, your partner's going to leave you for a tighter woman!' So I can't see the conversation going to a kinder, compassionate place anytime soon - but maybe that's not all the fault of women??

Op, are you one of those rare women who orgasm during piv?

I'm in the 80% who don't, and very much in the "who cares about size as long as its not big enough to hurt" camp.

Op, are you one of those rare women who orgasm during piv?
Perhaps vaginal orgasms wouldn't be so rare if women were allowed to articulate and act upon their dick preferences.

I'm in the 80% who don't, and very much in the "who cares about size as long as its not big enough to hurt" camp.
Do you think there could be a relationship between the two things you've said in this sentence?

@Rocaille

Op, are you one of those rare women who orgasm during piv? Perhaps vaginal orgasms wouldn't be so rare if women were allowed to articulate and act upon their dick preferences.

I'm in the 80% who don't, and very much in the "who cares about size as long as its not big enough to hurt" camp.
Do you think there could be a relationship between the two things you've said in this sentence?

@Rocaille

Spot on, that Scottish showed that women who did orgasm through PIV found it more likely if their partner had 6"+ to work with. And to combat "girl inches" I think they used a £x note for reference. Shame that study didn't also look at girth.

But perhaps if there more studies in this subject and women were allowed to articulate and act upon preferences, orgasming through PIV would be less rare.

@Rocaille

I just wish I could help woman understand how big of an issue this can be and how much hurt they can cause.

I'm sorry you had those painful experiences, Mr Jones, and am glad you've overcome them. However, women do understand what it's like to have their bodies scrutinized and found wanting, and how this can affect sexual confidence. The list of things that can be 'wrong' with a female body is never ending: too fat, too thin, boobs too small, boobs too saggy, too hairy, too wobbly, too stretch-marked, too wrinkled, too loose, too old, too ugly, on and on and on.

Frankly, it's a miracle that any women ever has the courage to sleep with a new partner. And the really sad thing is that, when she does, the sex is probably going to be wack and she probably won't come. Whereas men always get theirs. She'll have exposed herself to potential pregnancy, disease, sexual violence and trauma for a big fat nothing in return! This is the orgasm gap that both the OP and I have referred to.

We're not talking about dick preferences to be nasty and hurt men's feelings. We're trying to work out what we need to enjoy sex to the max and be fully satisfied by our partners. It's a shame there aren't more female-only spaces on the internet where women could talk about this in private as, I agree, men aren't likely to get anything out of these conversations other than a complex. However, whenever women set up a space on internet, men decide they also want to be there, so...

It would be great if the conversation was more nuanced. A big cock's not going be preferred by all women and, besides, a lot more than size goes into making a good cock, e.g. curvature, vasculature, presence/absence of foreskin, etc, not to mention the man it's attached to! However, every time a woman tentatively expresses a preference, she's immediately shouted down with 'you're loose, your vagina's so busted you need surgery, your partner's going to leave you for a tighter woman!' So I can't see the conversation going to a kinder, compassionate place anytime soon - but maybe that's not all the fault of women??

You are absolutely right, mumsnet should really be a female only space to discuss matters like this without men butting in and I feel terrible for invading it. I'm usually mindful of such things but its a subject that I feel strongly about and I let my emotion get the better of me. I'm sorry.

I visit the forum now and again try to understand a female perspective on important matters that are not easy to discuss directly with my partner. I wouldn't usually post anything but it was the lack of kindness and compassion you noted in some of the responses that prompted me to do so.

I'm off to learn what vasculature is and no doubt develop a hang up about a lack of it

It would be great if the conversation was more nuanced. A big cock's not going be preferred by all women and, besides, a lot more than size goes into making a good cock, e.g. curvature, vasculature, presence/absence of foreskin, etc, not to mention the man it's attached to! However, every time a woman tentatively expresses a preference, she's immediately shouted down with 'you're loose, your vagina's so busted you need surgery, your partner's going to leave you for a tighter woman!' So I can't see the conversation going to a kinder, compassionate place anytime soon - but maybe that's not all the fault of women??

@Rocaille

Indeed and ironic thing is, is that it could perhaps even reassure some of these SDE men.

The PP would find I believe that his size would be desirable for I think for most women. Yes may be too big or possibly even too small for a minority.

Most men would find that women don't need nor expect men to have 8" by 6" cocks.

Those with below average may find that there are some women who would be quite happy with a slim 4" and prefer that to a 6"+ (not me personally).

Instead we dare to express a preference or need and it's insults and doesn't help either gender.

@Rocaille

At the risk of you also being insulted, which I don't want, may I ask what you find to be just too small? I couldn't give you a number, but I have a picture in my mind of what I consider to be 'large', 'average', and 'small'. I'm not sure how helpful numbers are due to the 'girl inches' phenomenon, whereby women overestimate dick size. (Men are similarly clueless about bra sizes!!)

My best sexual experience was with an average-sized man. He commented that we fitted together perfectly, and we certainly did. It was a though his 'key' was made for my 'lock'. Mysterious. There was a great mental connection too, so that probably helped. Conversely, my worse experience was with the biggest cock, who was a jack-hammerer and couldn't have found my clit if he'd had a gun to his head.

Big is aesthetically appealing and a bit of a fantasy for me, but average is probably more practical as anal and oral are important parts of sex for me, and these go easier with a cock that's not too large.

the deeper the layer of fat around their vulva, and the less depth their partner's penis is going to reach.
I can't imagine a vulva being fat enough to make much of a difference? However, I know from bitter experience that a big bum paired with a small cock makes doggy-style unworkable.

The difference with the penis is it is by the time you see it, you're already intimate so short of requiring men to declare their length, girth and circumcision status on their passports, I dont see what you can do.
In future, I'm going to get them to show it to me in person before we have sex so I can check for size, health, overall aesthetic, and erectile function without it coming anywhere near my vagina. If it's not to my liking, I'll break things off later with a face-saving explanation.

isn't a main target for stimulation the g spot? And that's not particularly deep inside, even a small dick should be able to hit that spot.
I much prefer A-spot to G-spot stimulation, and unfortunately a small cock is not going to hit it. There's a huge emphasis on the g-spot in the media and culture at large, whereas more satisfying, deeper stimulation is seldom discussed. Could this be because the g-spot feeds into the 'size doesn't matter' narrative and assuages male anxiety about cock size??

Final comment: you don't need to have a big dick to have big dick energy. There's been a lot of small dick energy on this thread from certain posters, who appear quite triggered by women's preferences.

I can't imagine a vulva being fat enough to make much of a difference? However, I know from bitter experience that a big bum paired with a small cock makes doggy-style unworkable. It's not the vulva itself that's bigger or smaller, it's the layer of fat beneath the skin around it. Larger women have a deeper layer of fat under their skin in the pubic area which effectively makes the vulva and vagina deeper. In just the same way that overweight men have more fat in their pubic area which makes their penis appear shorter.

I've had relationships with slim and larger women (I'm not sizeist, more interested in other, non physical attributes). One partner was particularly on the large side (size 24 ish), and it was very noticeable during foreplay. Noticed that my fingers were having to go quite deep between the external skin/fat to reach her clit or vaginal opening. With slimmer/average size women everything has always felt much closer to the surface. PiV was still fine though, and we had great sex all around, she was still satisfied despite my average size dick. Even doggy, although angles/positioning were more fiddly.

The difference with the penis is it is by the time you see it, you're already intimate so short of requiring men to declare their length, girth and circumcision status on their passports, I dont see what you can do.
This is why it surprises me a bit that some women seem to find men with 7"+ cocks so common place, when statistically they're pretty rare.

I much prefer A-spot to G-spot stimulation, and unfortunately a small cock is not going to hit it. There's a huge emphasis on the g-spot in the media and culture at large, whereas more satisfying, deeper stimulation is seldom discussed. Could this be because the g-spot feeds into the 'size doesn't matter' narrative and assuages male anxiety about cock size??
I think that depends on the anatomy of the woman really (and perhaps her body size too, as per above), just as much as cock size. I can reach/stimulate my current partner's A spot with my middle finger, so I'd be very surprised if my cock doesn't go at least that deep. It's much easier for me to find it with my finger though, and my partner has quite a loose vagina, so it's easy to go beyond/away from her a spot. That's why positions where she's in control of the angle and depth work better during PiV - she can feel things into the right place to stimulate the a spot way better than I can.

And of course men are anxious about their size. As this thread shows size does matter. It's a functional thing, rather than the physical attributes that women often often concern themselves with their size - boob and bum size is purely cosmetic. I don't know who perpetuates the size doesn't matter thing, I don't tend to associate it with something men say, maybe it's just some women being polite about it?

My partner has quite a loose vagina, but we still have great sex (foreplay and the emotional connection are just as critical for us). Length wouldn't make any difference, it's the girth that fills a loose vagina. But I don't think any natural human cock would 'fill' her girth wise - the vaginal opening is typical tightness, but once inside, things open out significantly - imagine more cavern shape than tunnel.

@MrJones DH "measures up" almost identically to you and he is the best sex I have ever had, (obviously this is about more than just penis size) and actually sometimes he feels a little bit too big in some positions. If you have only ever been intimate with women who have made you feel inadequate about your penis size you have been incredibly unlucky.
I think the thought of a very large penis may be appealing but when faced with the reality of it, it can just be impossible for some women. I have had sex with someone with a well above average length and girth. It wasn't great tbh and I was very sore for days afterwards. I was not looking for a repeat!

No woman I have been with made me feel inadequate about my penis size, it was in my own head that I thought I was.

The clumsy point I was trying to make was that society and the media made me feel inadequate by suggesting that men need to have a 8”+ penis (1 in 5000 men type sized) in order to have good sex and satisfy a woman.

It still happens, I saw an advert for pills that promise an extra 2” in length on a football forum last night.

It does huge psychological damage to many young men in the same way that the use of unfeasibly skinny models in advertising can affect women’s body image and lead to body dysmorphia, eating disorders, etc.

I now understand that every woman is different and good sex takes more than putting a penis in a vagina but it takes age and experience to understand that. Something that most young men don’t have.

I wish this was talked about more openly as I honestly believe there will be men out there that would be so down about their normal sized penis that they would contemplate suicide over it.

The clumsy point I was trying to make was that society and the media made me feel inadequate by suggesting that men need to have a 8”+ penis (1 in 5000 men type sized) in order to have good sex and satisfy a woman.

For what it’s worth, I had no problem orgasming PIV with previous smaller sized partners.

Instead we dare to express a preference or need and it's insults and doesn't help either gender.

What a good job you're not being insulting then eh?

a man can be packing just too little?

I do feel sorry for 'men' with small ones

I was thinking back to when in the mood and then unveiling a four incher, and for me the partner then does seem less manly.

packing, a lot of SDE in this thread

@Snoozysnoozy
I think you will find it had already turned toxic, I think first post was suggesting I needed surgery because below average was too small for me.

So yes.

It would be great if the conversation was more nuanced. A big cock's not going be preferred by all women and, besides, a lot more than size goes into making a good cock, e.g. curvature, vasculature, presence/absence of foreskin, etc, not to mention the man it's attached to! However, every time a woman tentatively expresses a preference, she's immediately shouted down with 'you're loose, your vagina's so busted you need surgery, your partner's going to leave you for a tighter woman!' So I can't see the conversation going to a kinder, compassionate place anytime soon - but maybe that's not all the fault of women??

@Rocaille

Indeed and ironic thing is, is that it could perhaps even reassure some of these SDE men.

The PP would find I believe that his size would be desirable for I think for most women. Yes may be too big or possibly even too small for a minority.

Most men would find that women don't need nor expect men to have 8" by 6" cocks.

Those with below average may find that there are some women who would be quite happy with a slim 4" and prefer that to a 6"+ (not me personally).

Instead we dare to express a preference or need and it's insults and doesn't help either gender.

I wish this was talked about more openly as I honestly believe there will be men out there that would be so down about their normal sized penis that they would contemplate suicide over it.

I have often wondered where the fixation on inch size comes from-I suspect porn has a huge (pardon the pun) part to play in this-which has historically been male driven. Bigger is definitely not always better and although aesthetically, bigger might look impressive I don't ascribe to bigger means better. I know the kind of ads you mean and they are pretty ridiculous. Almost as good as the magic overnight thin pill ones women get 😉

You started this thread, presumably to have a discussion? People try to discuss it, and all you can do is throw around insults like SDE (which I've not seen any evidence of here anyway), mansplaining, and that a man with a smaller dick isn't a real man. It seems like you're the one with a hang up about dick size.

It's nothing personal - I couldn't live further away from you, so we're incredibly unlikely to ever meet, and even more unlikely to disappoint you with my average sized member. I'm in a happy relationship and neither me nor my partner have any concerns about the size of my manhood. So for me it's literally about having the discussion and trying to help you with your question.

Why did you start the thread, and what do you actually want to learn from it?

Maybe you could tell us why you need bigger dick to be satisfied than you think other women do?

What proportion of men have you met that measure up to your requirements, and how does that compare to published stats? I mean, do you preselect based on dick size, or do you just attract well endowed men. Or are you finding the stats match your experience in the field and you're repeatedly disappointed to discover average or below size dicks?

What are you looking for - just sex or a complete relationship? I mean, if it's just for the sex, then fine be picky and just go for blokes with big dicks. But if you want a relationship there are obviously many other factors than dick size. Is dick size your absolute priority?

Statistically your chances of finding a man that measures up in every department, and is packing a whopper as well, are going to be very slim. You could be looking for a very long time. So maybe it's a case of being unrealistic rather than unreasonable in your demands? Relationships always involve compromise. Would you rather be with a bloke with a big dick who's also a big dick, or an average sized bloke who you also get on with in other ways?

You're all piling on OP because she's saying out loud what a lot of women are thinking in private but don't have the nerve to say.

Your shrill, emotional, and manipulative responses don't change that reality one iota.

I'll say it again: if you don't want to hear women talking about dick, then don't linger on the sex board of a 95% female website.

Threatening OP with the spectre of perpetual singlehood makes me laugh. Projection much? It's men who fear being single, not women. We thrive when we're alone and I for one would rather go without sex for the rest of my life than settle for a man who didn't do it for me.

Finally, if you care that much about male mental health then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Shouting at random women on the internet does not count as constructive action. I spent years volunteering for a mental health charity that was staffed mainly by women & used mainly by men, until I got sick of the daily sexual abuse I endured and left. How many of you can say that you contribute even half the time to this issue that women do? It's funny, you seem to only care about men's mental health when you can use it as a pretext for silencing women.

A lot of slack vag energy on this thread all of a sudden

A lot of slack vag energy on this thread all of a sudden

Lol, false equivalence. It could be the slackest of the slack and you'd still be sniffing after it.

Would you rather be with a bloke with a big dick who's also a big dick, or an average sized bloke who you also get on with in other ways?

Quite happy being with a bloke with a big dick who didn’t know he had a big dick until I told him. We have been together for 18 years. Married for twelve. Safe to say that we get on with in other ways.

Would you rather be with a bloke with a big dick who's also a big dick, or an average sized bloke who you also get on with in other ways?

Assuming men with big dicks are arrogant assholes is like assuming beautiful women are vapid and vain. It's a cope that doesn't have any basis in reality. There are plenty of lovely men who have big cocks, as well as plenty of extremely unpleasant men who have small ones.

Telling women to settle for men they're not sexually compatible with because 'at least he'll treat you well' is a recipe for disappointing relationships and dead bedrooms.

Anyway, these considerations aren't really relevant to me as I'm only interested in men sexually. I won't be having another relationship.

The OP is quite entitled to have a preference for any dick size or any other attribute, and men are equally entitled to prefer slim women, younger women, blondes or whatever. There's a fine line between having that preference and expressing it in a way that shows disrespect for people who don't measure up.
This idea that women are shy about expressing their preferences doesn't square with my experience - every woman with whom I've ever been in bed was quite clear about it - and nor does the idea that men are so desperate they'll shag anything that moves. No doubt some are but I don't know any personally.

@Rocaille

A lot of slack vag energy on this thread all of a sudden

Lol, false equivalence. It could be the slackest of the slack and you'd still be sniffing after it.

Aw, that’s okay. You don’t have to be tight to have Tight Vag Energy.

I think you can see my point. Some of the comments aimed at men on this thread are demeaning and insulting. Flip the genders round and that becomes obvious.

The OP asked if she was being unreasonable to have a preference, which of course she isn’t. What is unreasonable is the tone and language used by the OP and some subsequent posters.

@Rocaille

Op, are you one of those rare women who orgasm during piv? Perhaps vaginal orgasms wouldn't be so rare if women were allowed to articulate and act upon their dick preferences.

I'm in the 80% who don't, and very much in the "who cares about size as long as its not big enough to hurt" camp.
Do you think there could be a relationship between the two things you've said in this sentence?

You're going to have to explain your point cos I'm kind of tired.

I've fucked guys every size from micro penis to 13" (yes really, my knees are slamming shut right now thinking about it) and never had an orgasm. I orgasm from clit stimulation, so my partner needs to be good with their tongue. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy piv - it just means I don't need it, and a big cock is likely to leave me out of action for a couple of days