SEX - Am I a pervert, is she frigid or is it somewhere in between?

[daddk]

I am 45 married to my DW (43) with three DC (10, 7 and 4). We have been together for about 22 years!

All in all I am happy with the family we have built and the life we have and I love my DW but one thing has always been a bit of a problem – SEX!

Ever since we started going out she has always been a bit shy and in my opinion a bit unimaginative. None of us have great experience with other long-term boy or girlfriends. There have been others but no other serious relationships.

Already in the early years our relationship I was frustrated with our sex life. In my opinion she never took any initiative and the sex was always the same. I grew up in Scandinavia with easy access to porn and she was from a traditional British family. I wanted to experiment but she was not up for anything. However I loved her. She was fun, she was sexy and we got on in all other aspects of life. I brought it up from time to time but nothing ever changed. About seven years into our relationship we had our biggest relationship crises and I told her that it was not working because of the unexciting sex. However I loved her and our life in general together was great so we stayed together.

Sex remained an issue and I kept bringing it up from time to time but nothing changed. Then we had our first child. Sex during pregnancy was of limits. I took care of myself and remained loyal (never been unfaithful). After birth it took time to get back into sex but we did and our second DC arrived. Same story and a few years later our third DC was here.

Everyday life has taken over and sex has decreased more and more. Now it is every 4-8 weeks and always on my initiative. She does not seem to miss it.

I feel that we are drifting apart. In my opinion she no longer shows much affection outside of the bedroom. A peck on the cheek and quick hug but with no passion. The passion is completely gone in the bedroom as well and it seems sheer obligation on her part. I get the impression she feels the faster the sex is over and done with the better.

As mentioned I keep bringing the subject up and as many other men I have probably chosen the wrong times and put pressure on my DW. I have read numerous advice on websites and carefully tried to put the ball in her court and said that I would like to talk to her about sex when she is ready. However nothing ever happens and she never brings it up. I have tried apps where both parties can tick what they like. She does not complete it. I have send her long text messages trying to express my despair of the state of our marriage but all I got back was a sad smiley. I have printed “yes, no, maybe” sheets and gone through them but she says “no” to most if she knows what it is (she was not sure what a 69 meant and it was a reluctant maybe).

Because of the children we have often slept in different bedrooms which I at times have actually preferred because I could get on my phone to watch porn and take care of myself like a sad teenager. She knows about this and finds it utterly degusting.

I love her and still find her attractive. I buy her lingerie, which just ends up in the draw. The children are getting better at sleeping in their own beds and we spend more time in the same bed but she just wants to cuddle up. I feel that I am just a big teddy or hot water bottle.

When we have sex it tends to be the same procedure. She will suck me off for a bit, or give me a hand job then she goes on top an rub herself against my penis. Occasionally she goes on top or it is the missionary position. She does not like me licking her or fingering her. She finds sperm gross so mostly I come on myself. Maybe I am influenced by the porn industry but I would love her take pleasure in making me come and let me come on her. She never shows any real pleasure (no moans or groans) and she has never had an orgasm to my knowledge. That upsets me immensely and I am devastated that I as her man don’t really know what makes her tick and can bring her to climax.

For all these years we have had sex and despite not being fully satisfied with our love life I still found her sexy and love being with her despite her lack of involvement.

I don’t know if it is a midlife crises or the fact that she seems to show less and less affection to me but I am starting to feel really depressed and even resentment towards her at times. I love her and the thought of us splitting up upsets me. I want us to work. I want us to be passionate.

She seems to be happy in the role as parent and put schoolwork, water bottles, children’s activities etc. before anything else. I feel we have become just like friends rather than a couple.

We struggle to communicate about anything and I have asked into what her thoughts are about the lack of sex but she is not very responsive. I have suggested we could try counselling but she is not open for this. She is not on any medication that can affect her libido but maybe she should see a doctor? (not sure she will see the need for this). I feel I have been open, approachable and sincere but everything I do seem to be ignored. She thinks I am obsessed. I see this as very serious but I get the impressions she thinks “not again” every time I try to bring it up.

Anybody who has been or are in a similar situation? Any suggestions? What can I do? Am I approaching this completely wrong?

The obsessed pervert?

and it seems sheer obligation on her part. I get the impression she feels the faster the sex is over and done with the better so stop and say "you're chestnut not into it, u don't want tgis to be something I do to you"

She clearly wants more cuddles etc but you don't see that as proper affection because it doesn't get you sex. Cuddle her more hold hands. Kiss. Stop bombarding her with questionnaires and apps and questions

Do you have much opportunity to reconnect as a couple? It's easy to fall into the parent role, and exhausting when kids are still young. I hate the term 'date night' but perhaps line up some babysitting and go out for dinner or drinks. Have fun, but have absolutely no expectation of sex and don't use it as a chance to talk about it either. Hand holding, cuddle but nothing more. A complete generalisation, but men aren't very subtle even when they think they are being so!

Absolutely no apps, questionnaires etc. I can see why you feel that might work because it opens up a form of conversation without her having to have a face to face conversation that she might find awkward. But if my husband did that i would retreat even further, find it too clinical and like he was ticking menu options for a sex worker or something.

Please don't buy lingerie or anything connected to sex or her body as a Christmas present either! Maybe something to focus on her as an individual rather than mother or wife e.g spa day or something she's into as a person.

In summary i'd just completely back off for a bit and then build things up from the start again, almost like dating and no expectations. That might give her more confidence in herself and in bed??

A bit left field but have a discussion with your wife, yes I know you have probably had many of them but before you do think of something that your wife really really loves doing. So let's say she likes going out, but she does not know why she likes going out it's just something she has always done. It is natural to her and she has a desire (not a need or want) to go out and she loves the sunshine. Once you have worked this out, take your time to think, then frame your conversation. 'You know how you love to go out in the sun and as soon as it is sunny you are packing up the beach gear and you love to stay on the beach all day until the sun goes down?' well that feeling you get, and you have no idea where it comes from its just a desire and natural, then that is how I feel about sex. It is a desire and natural. Now imagine if every time you wanted to go out your partner said no or another time. How would you feel?

My other point is the story about the man with a coat and the wind and sun have a bet that they can get him to to take off the coat. The wind blows and blows but the man just pulls the coat tighter. The sun comes out and the man takes his coat off. A sunny approach is also much better than pressure. I am not saying you are doing this but something to bear in mind.

To want sex is a natural desire it does not make you a pervert.

Sorry just re-read and did not mean to say "Now imagine if every time you wanted to go out your partner said no or another time. How would you feel?" Thats pretty bad not sure what I was typing.

Meant to say The feeling you get to go out in the sun is the feeling I get to want sex.

Apologies for the first option which is plain wrong

Bloke here. Can't help but feel that reading the OP, less smut and more feelings are needed. Turn off the porn.

Sadly I don’t think you are sexually compatible. Many couples lose their passion and sexual connection after 22 years but some find their way back to each other. From what you say though sex has never been particularly satisfying for either of you. To add to this fundamental problem, your Dw does not seem willing to discuss things with you, so I am not sure what they way forward is here. Sorry.

she has never had an orgasm to my knowledge.

This might be the heart of the problem.

What to do about it? My wife similarly refuses all lingerie, toys, etc. etc. What she does do (after 15 mins of missionary and her on top) is brings herself off with her fingers, missionary-style, with her bum on pillow, while I thrust slowly and not too deep. If your wife won't use fingers, you could get her to try a small (Durex) bullet vibrator instead.

I also insisted on scheduling sex, to make sure it happened more than once every few weeks when she thought she might be 'in the mod'. I made it clear that the alternative was separating, which she wanted less than having to commit to regular sex. We now do it every Saturday night, and this has saved our mariage.

I sense that one big mistake I've made over the years has been to make things too easy for my wife, who can be a bit bossy and selfish. I sense that, while women often say they want sensitive metrosexual males in touch with their feelings, a lot of them respond more positively to a little old-fashioned male assertiveness.

Best of luck to you, friend!

I could have written this post. I completely understand your frustration. I do feel that men do get the short end of the stick l, when it comes to this situation and you are seen as some kind of obsessed weirdo, when all you wish for is more sex with the woman you chose to spend your life with.

I myself have been with my husband for 20years. Married for 12 and two kids. Great life, but sexless marriage. It hurts. I have tried to address physically and verbally, on numerous occasions and he tells me he just isn't in the mood or is tired. I used to get cross and angry and quickly realised that wasn't the best way forward, but even upon being kinder over this sensitive topic of not wanting sex, Nothing changes.

He has no physical reasons that prevent him from having sex. He does have low self esteem and I have implored him to seek therapy to help him. The self esteem stems right back to a dysfunctional relationship with his parents. He refuses. I feel often he doesn't care enough about that side of our relationship to invest in it. I didn't marry to live like brother and sister or companions. I would expect that in our advancing years not in our 30s and 40s.

What to do? I do not honestly know. I know I do not want to spilt my family but I know that significant need of intimacy and passion and it is affecting my mental health and even my self esteem.

I wouldn't skirt around the issue with texts and apps. Tell her this hurts you beyond words. Tell her you want this with her. What can you give her physically that she will actually enjoy?

I find myself resentful too. I look at him and see a stranger before me. It's like a slow loss of the love we have built. Yes, there is more to marriage and love than just sex but sex and the physical intimacy is what sets that relationship aside from others that we have. We all need a connection that resonates at each of our different levels. Whilst we hold back and try and respect the needs of a partner that looses interest in sex and intimacy, what becomes of the partner who has tried, who has been patient, who wants the passion to continue to burn with that one person that we love? We just get called out for being, over the top, or wanting too much. No. That's unfair. Man or woman, we need to be physically loved. We need to be wanted. There needs to be compromise.

It hurts when you want them and they turn over to sleep. Life is so short and should be lived well and passionately in all aspects.

I hope you find your resolution.

What screams out to me in what you wrote was that it was all about you & what you want.

Have you asked her why she has never orgasmed? Do you know what she even likes?

If my husband wanted to spunk on me I'd feel bloody disrespected! You seriously watch too much porn, I don't care how 'liberated' you are & how strait laced she is, that probably happens rarely in normal healthy relationships.

And the bloke that insists on sex or he'd want to separAte from his wife, that feels very blackmail/rapey.

No, my wife has a perfect right not to have sex with me. If she takes that route, she has no right to be married to me. Simple.

Well you sound a peach

Sorry, ladies, but to me marriage is more that inheriting a flatmate whose bills you pay.

Those women who want to live a sexless life should not marry a fella who wants a sex life.

For us, the direct approach has paid off. Sex is scheduled, sex is regular, sex is good. It saved our marriage.

Does your wife enjoy it, or endure it?

j712adrian Fri 20-Dec-19 12:05:39
Bloke here. Can't help but feel that reading the OP, less smut and more feelings are needed. Turn off the porn.
.........
I agree with that.

Your next post will be my wife of 22 years is having an EA with a guy from the coffee shop.

Get in touch with the feminine and stop objectifying her.

Does your wife enjoy it, or endure it?

Judging from the shuddering orgasm(s), I'd say the former.

In her case, I think there's a block with getting sex going. She once told me she always enjoyed it once she got started - it was the starting it that was the problem. If I left it to her to start it, it'd be weeks before we had sex. She seemed to think it was reasonable to expect me to try to initiate sex, and get shot down night after night after night. That's absolutely no good for me, I'm afraid. Hence the direct aproach. Schedule, or go your own way.

It worked for us.

Orgasms are a physiological response - they do not indicate emotional enjoyment or fulfilment. Abuse victims may orgasm - it does NOT mean they enjoy the experience. Just so you know...

I’ve seen this so many tines on here. Man with a genuine issue, who has tried just about everything and broached the subject in many ways, many times gets shut down. Several replies are very biased and inconsiderate to someone needing help and support with an issue that could be the end of a relationship.

“Get off the Porn” is common, that’s not the issue. It’s a consequence of not having sex, you can clearly see that in the OP.

NQuartz, it’s not helpful to project your situation onto others. Cumming on someone is natural Sexual act but not everyone likes it. My current and previous partners have all liked it and asked for it. Also, this is a common situation for both men and women to be in. It’s not “Rapey” at all and the vast majority of posts you see on this subject from both perspectives have someone yearning for sex and has tried (and usually failed) to respectfully and with care broach the subject with their partners. It’s very unhelpful to put such a tag on it as it makes everyone feel even worse when you insinuate someone wants to “rape” their partner. it feels like it’s being sex obsessed and can feel like you are pervert already without someone adding “rapey” to it! It’s all about him because he’s the one trying to sort out the situation, his partner is straight up (for whatever reasons) blocking his well meant attempts to help them both.

It’s perfectly normal to want the person you desire (and have a usually otherwise happy relationship with) to enjoy and be fulfilled sexually. It hurts when you can’t even start to provide that pleasure and it hurts even more when it seems that they do not desire or want YOU to have the same. Yes, it can look a bit selfish, but why shouldn’t it? why should anyone with a perfectly natural desire never have sex?

Assume 40 years of age, that could be another 40 years of a relationship without sex.

In a relationship, it’s generally assumed that the point is that you see something in your partner that makes you want to be with them, the first thing is usually looks, it’s usually desire. You want them, you get to know them and hopefully you want them even more. You want to give all of yourself to them. If that is one sided it won’t work.

As you can no doubt tell, my relationship with my partner is very similar. Last time I had sex was July. On my birthday. You can imagine how that eventually felt; dutiful, boring, half hearted. I’d rather not have done it now but hoped that we might have got into it. Before that it’s probably eighteen months ago. Once a year if I’m ”lucky”. It’s a big thing for me, and like the OP I have searched for advice, become very interested in the psychology of it and the best advice seems to be to try and re-establish the connection across the relationship and look at it as an intimacy problem rather than sexual. Go with the cuddles, don’t expect anything. make things fun. You have to try and flirt, build up confidence, do the date nights with no expectations, be open and honest with each other. keep talking. If that doesn’t start to produce a better understanding then it really won’t get any better and someone has to make a decision about counselling either together or apart before taking a really big look at whether you can ”put up” with no sex and have basically a flat mate. It’s not even a FWB!

A bit long and rambling, Hope I’ve made some valid points.

Well your wife seems to be holding something back but why? She seems uncomfortable with intimacy and unable to let go. Could it be her upbringing? Was she raised to think sex is dirty/wrong? The sperm thing is just selfish, yes it’s not the greatest part of sex but such a massive part that she’s denying you. It takes 5 mins to jump in the shower after, no big deal.

To me this reads that she’s a bit spoilt and controlling, withholding sex/intimacy can be linked with emotional abuse, she’s in charge and it’s all in her terms? However, it really depends what’s going on in the rest the of your relationship....

You do have three kids so have obviously managed it in the past! Bringing up children is tough though. Do you help her regularly with the kids, cooking and house stuff? If she feels unsupported in the rest of her life she sure as hell won’t feel like connecting with you in bed.

Oh from a woman’s perspective, pregnancy sex can be fantastic. Maybe not so much during the early and later stages though.

I just don’t get how you love her and your life together yet there’s still this massive elephant in the room 🤷🏻‍♀️

I really feel for the OP - I’ve been in that situation. Inevitable things happened and we are now amicably separated.

Wibble753 and Coatzillaclaus - excellent posts!

Would your wife go to couples therapy with you? It sounds like a long-standing issue that you can't communicate about.

No easy answers here. It sounds like it was an issue from day1 that was buried.

Can you remember what was the most interested she has ever been when you have had sex? What happened during those times? What was the build up? Eg can you recreate what did it for her then.

And/or, can you schedule a few nights of babysitting, at least 1 if not 2 per week over a few weeks. Go for meals, cinema, whatever. Lots of cuddles, laughs, no pressure kid free talking...

It's really quite strange and disrepectful to use to the word 'frigid'. A very poor choice of word. No one is frigid if they do not want sex, they might just not want it and that's their choice.

In your situation: I understand why you tried the apps and quizzes but as a pp said, I think these would just take the spark right away, very practical and Fifty Shades of Greyish, just wanting to know what she'll consent to.

If you want your relationship to work, you need to listen to her. Stop focussing on sex. Ask her how she thinks your relationship can be better. She clearly craves a physical connection with you, hence the desire to cuddle. Work on your relationship first; do you go out together just the two of you? Get that spark back first and then maybe she'll feel closer to you, your relationship will be stronger and you sex life may change.