DW view on sex

[OhNoNinkyNonk]

After other people's view points please

Been with DW for 6 years, married for nearly 4. We have 13mo DS

After finding out DW was pregnant we didn't have sex, she had some minor complications that gave her some pain and discomfort. I distanced myself from the subject and just got on with things, I have never been the type to beg or ask.

Since DS was born we have had sex 4 times. So in two years that's it. In the last couple of months I have been finding it increasingly difficult. I attempted to talk this through with DW this morning, in her words:

I just don't think about it
I'm not that bothered about it
I enjoy it when we do have sex
I just don't have the same drive as you, I can happily go a couple weeks without (at this I pointed out it has been 2 months which I think is a bit different!)

This is all compounded by some restrictions on DW part. Has to be in our bed, under covers, in the dark, always same position. She doesn't like giving or receiving oral, or me touching her with my hands 'down there'

We both work, most of weekend is busy so this possibly leaves one chance while DS is napping. Weeknights are no good as his room is right next to ours... So basically we never get a chance...

I struggle to get my head around enjoying sex but rarely wanting it. I get she may be a bit more body conscious, I regularly compliment her, tell her how beautiful she is. Usually the reply is an eye roll...each time I try to discuss this it devolves into an argument, I get this is hard after having kids I don't expect to have sex several times a week but the gaps between are 2/3/4 months it leaves me feeling so down and upset. It's the 'I don't care, so it doesn't matter what you want' bit that really hurts

I am considering counselling, any advice?

I don't really have much advice as it sounds like you are doing the right things. My sex drive improved a lot after coming off the mini pill & we used condoms until dh had the snip.
I also used to find i was more inclined after having a long bath. I breast fed our dcs and had a person attached to me for most of the day, until they were 2+. When they went to bed i was so relieved to have my own body back that the last thing I wanted was yet another person touching it.
Give her time, by this I mean give her time alone without the baby and give her time to sleep (at night!).

Sounds like she has body issues which can't be cured by a few compliments. After #2 I wanted to be covered up as much as possible, no way would I be on top with the full glare of electric lights on me, no way. Frankly if I could have done it fully clothed I would. I still enjoyed sex, just was v v v self conscious.

Also at 13m was still KNACKERED and sex was honestly waaaaaay down the list after sleep, mindless TV, mindless YouTube, mindless crappy books.....and sleeeeeeep.

That said, my DH was exhausted too so was honestly not bothered. If he had been upset and started feeling unattractive I would have taken it very seriously.

How were things before she was pregnant? Asking as this will help work out whether she's just not that keen full stop, or if it's due to the DC (hormone change/tiredness/touched out etc)

How tactile are you both in general? Do you ever touch her when you don't expect sex? Cuddles, kisses, massages etc?
I found that me and DH went through a period like this and what was putting me off is that every time he touched me I felt like he just wanted sex rather than to just be affectionate with me. If I'm honest it put me off and made me feel a bit pressured. Not sure if that helps?

Low libido and/or passive preference = relatively normal. Very very very limited adventuriousness = more unusual, possible hang ups about sex not just about her body. What was she like before she was pregnant?

Thanks for the speedy reply!! Sorry I'm drip feeding!

No contraceptive since before TTC. Just using condoms. Stopped breastfeeding at 9 months. Totally get that the above plays a part though. He also has nursery 3 days a week.

Been trying to take DS as much as I can, giving DW lay ins where possible. Time to herself etc. I taken him to Saturday morning activity 3 weeks of last 4 on my own for example. Usually we both go but I insisted.

We have always shared all duties equally with DS. Tonight she puts him to bed and I take him during the night if he wakes. Other way round tomorrow. Fingers crossed he has been sleeping through a lot recently too.

I think you are very understanding to be honest!

Mind you even when I was pregnant and then had small children my sex drive never waivered

I would happily have sex with her clothes on and in the dark if that's what she wanted or was happier doing, I added that for context really just to show how limited opportunities are.

Totally appreciate it's going to be down the list, but it feels more like it's dropped off the list completely.

I have always had a much higher drive but as mentioned I don't beg or ask, just let it happen naturally. I was generally happy, sometimes we had sex a lot, sometimes not so much.

We used to be much more 'cuddly' but even before DS that started to wane. I recently pointed out this to DW and she said 'well you didn't ask'. I'm really trying to get over to her at the moment that I shouldn't really have to ask sometimes? I went through a phase of backing off from any intimacy (to give her space, see if it would help) and it just got worse. If I don't initiate anything then nothing happens at all. Literally go days without even a kiss good morning or goodbye.

That said we have talked about this recently and it has improved. She refuses massage. Notice a lot recently that if I try and kiss her she doesn't interact...as in...hands in her lap, kisses have no feeling if that makes sense? I just feel like a chore

She has said in the past that she felt pressured to have sex if I showed any affection. Tried to reassure her that's not the case. But avoiding any intimacy is just driving a wedge and we need to work things out.

I am starting to feel like there is more she isn't telling me but she won't open up.

Thanks to you all for your replies by the way.

I really appreciate it, I have been so down recently with all of this and your advice and reassurance has already made me feel better

It does sound a bit miserable. I'm also struggling to think what sex actually involves for you both once you exclude any sort of oral contact or touching.
Also - I don't think having a baby in the next room makes sex difficult unless you are particularly vocal?!
I think her inability to open up about her lack of interest indicates something a bit more fundamental than just not feeling in the mood and actually that would hurt me most of all.

Just another thought; if your dw had a traumatic birth expirience, was previously sexually abused or had an abortion, she may just want to close sex off entirely. Trauma caused by the above can resurface at different times.

DS cot is against the same wall as our bed, bed frame is metal and a bit creaky so it would make a fair bit of noise. To be fair we could move beds around but she likes the layout as it is. Not that vocal 

I should say there is touching as part of sex, as foreplay. I just find myself in a position where we have full sex or nothing. We wouldn't do anything else. Something else I also found about DW recently, she says she has never masturbated and never would, I thought a little odd to have not done it once ever?!

She did have an abortion years before we even met so perhaps that has some bearing on it. In past it's not seemed to be an issue, I remember when we decided to TTC she was very interested...and she does talk occasionally about trying to TTC again in future

When we tried to talk yesterday it started off civil, But she started getting a bit angry and basically mocking me. I just said we will talk about this later when you have calmed down, got home last night and we barely said a word. Really need to get her to open up, I'm tempted to suggest Relate or similar...

Oh and no traumatic birth, nor abuse that I'm aware of

I would suggest Relate. I found them very good.

Me and my dh have/had sex issues. I tend to initiate and my dh is very uninterested in trying anything new and seemingly would go for ages without sex. Although we both have always enjoyed oral and we often Fi this instead of full sex. We went to Relate to talk it out and it did help. He has anxieties about 'performance' (he's never been able to last long before orgasm), although I've never dared mention it. Things did get better and we relaxed after counselling.

We still go through phases of no or little sex. However there's always affection. Things peek and trough and we muddle through.

I do think that just turning off any affection or sex and expecting your partner to be ok with it is not fair. It's needs to be talked about and worked through. Relate forced us to talk about it in a fair way. Definitely give it a go.

Thank you. It's been a bit tense at home for the last few days, I'm at home this afternoon so hopefully we can get some time to talk. I will have a look at relate as well.

I often feel conflicted on this, sometimes I feel like it is unfair, I get miserable and down about it. Then other times I wonder is it just me, am I being unfair or expect too much? Again this makes me miserable. It feels like the last few months especially we are walking on egg shells...but I really do agree it's lack of communication that's really causing all of this.

Thanks again, will let you know how we get on.

I’d be surprised if it gets better. If it follows the same path as my marriage, you’ll find the months without sex turn into years, all intimacy (other than - as one MNetter put it – kisses like your aunt would give you) disappears completely and every attempt at discussing the problems with your wife turn into an argument where she spends pretty much the whole time playing the victim and gaslighting you about how it’s really all your fault and that she is up for it at all kinds of occasions, but you’ve done something wrong.

In the time in between these arguments she allows herself to believe it’s all blown over and all is rosy, whilst you'e still going through the tangible heartache of being rejected every single day.

And for complete clarity, this isn’t a sexist view, just my own personal situation, as I recognise there are also many women on here who have been through the same anguish with their husbands ceasing intimacy and rational discussion about it with them.

I did think at one time that counselling might work, until I read that they can’t create passion where there is none. I thought it may be that we both wanted the same thing but were just having trouble communicating it, but as soon as I realised that wasn’t the case, there was no point. I can’t compromise on love, where she agrees to 'half love me'.

As for me, after well over a decade I’m done with discussing it. I’m now ‘checked-out’ and waiting until our kids are over 18 and the mortgage will be paid off.

She has said in the past that she felt pressured to have sex if I showed any affection.

This stood out to me. Do you show physical affection separately from sex? I think it's important to keep up the low level touch - stuff like sitting next to her on the sofa rather than at the other end, a kiss when you come home, random cuddles and kisses here and there but without any attempt to take it further. So that it doesn't feel like "he's touching me=he wants sex". I know you said she's unresponsive to kisses but I can't tell whether that's because she thinks if she responds you're inevitably going to want more....

I don't want to upset you but personally, it sounds like she's not attracted to you anymore.

I had an ex who I was with for years and I couldn't stand to have sex unless it was literally an in and out job (cringe thinking about it now).

I think you need to have a frank conversation with her and say something along the lines of "I'm under the impression you're not attracted to me anymore and I'm really hurt. Can you please let me know how you feel, honestly, so we can try to work something out that's going to be better for us both in the long run?"

It sounds absolutely miserable and boring for you, and for her, tbh.

Also, her being defensive is probably a sign that she knows you're both in hot water, but she doesn't want to admit it ergo have to deal with any consequences. She's playing the victim, her saying she feels pressured any time you touch her is her way of making things easier for herself.

I think you need to give her an ultimatum as this is clearly about more than sex if she’s mocking you for expressing her feelings. Tell her you want Relate and if she’s not up for that you leave.

I agree with a pp, and don't want this to sound awful but the reality is probably that she just isn't that into you.

That's pretty tough to hear and process, I'm sorry however in my middle age I can now reflect on relationships where I'm not 'feeling it' is really just a demonstration of my true deep down attraction. The thing is though........babies.......keep us plodding on. It's just not particularly nice for anyone involved.

Agreeing with pp - if you do go to Relate be prepared for the answer to be that she is no longer attracted to you

I really feel for you - withdrawing sex is a huge thing in a marriage. Your best bet is to find out why from her, through relate or otherwise, and take it from there.

Might well be fixable, so don't despair.

I can kind of see it from her perspective (not saying she's right, but I understand). The most understanding and kind men won't understand how shitty it feels when you're really uncomfortable with your body especially after a pregnancy. My DH doesn't and he is lovely.

Sounds like she's an exhausted new mum with body confidence issues. We didn't get back in the swing of things until fairly recently and our child is 20 months old. The first 18 months or so we were both so exhausted most of the time, sleeping separately half he time (as DH needs a good nights sleep to drive the next day) and I felt repulsive.

Can you make time for the two of you? Take her out for dinner, to the cinema, whatever you like to do? You need to try to have some baby free couple time. Not just so you get sex at the end of it - you might not. Maybe build up to an overnight stay somewhere nice if she's happy to leave baby? Start spending time on your relationship as a couple again, and not just as parents. As your relationship becomes focused on the two of you again, even if you just do stuff like this once a month to begin with you may find she changes how she feels/relaxes enough to enjoy sex again.

Another one here who went to Relate and found it really helpful.
They taught us to talk about our problems without being defensive/shouting... it really really helped our sex life. In fact we’ve been together 7 years and have a 3 yo and I’m pregnant and it’s probably the best it’s ever been.
One of the things the counsellor said to me that helped was ‘men need to have sex to feel loved, women need to feel loved to have sex’. That helped no end actually, and my DH understood me a lot more.