DW view on sex

[OhNoNinkyNonk]

After other people's view points please

Been with DW for 6 years, married for nearly 4. We have 13mo DS

After finding out DW was pregnant we didn't have sex, she had some minor complications that gave her some pain and discomfort. I distanced myself from the subject and just got on with things, I have never been the type to beg or ask.

Since DS was born we have had sex 4 times. So in two years that's it. In the last couple of months I have been finding it increasingly difficult. I attempted to talk this through with DW this morning, in her words:

I just don't think about it
I'm not that bothered about it
I enjoy it when we do have sex
I just don't have the same drive as you, I can happily go a couple weeks without (at this I pointed out it has been 2 months which I think is a bit different!)

This is all compounded by some restrictions on DW part. Has to be in our bed, under covers, in the dark, always same position. She doesn't like giving or receiving oral, or me touching her with my hands 'down there'

We both work, most of weekend is busy so this possibly leaves one chance while DS is napping. Weeknights are no good as his room is right next to ours... So basically we never get a chance...

I struggle to get my head around enjoying sex but rarely wanting it. I get she may be a bit more body conscious, I regularly compliment her, tell her how beautiful she is. Usually the reply is an eye roll...each time I try to discuss this it devolves into an argument, I get this is hard after having kids I don't expect to have sex several times a week but the gaps between are 2/3/4 months it leaves me feeling so down and upset. It's the 'I don't care, so it doesn't matter what you want' bit that really hurts

I am considering counselling, any advice?

Thanks all.

I would be lying if I said I hadn't considered the worst scenario here, that being we separate. As pp mentioned I just think of DS and hope time will help but I'm not naive to think that may not achieve anything...

In terms of time to ourselves, only option is IL's. They are lovely and love having DS but they have jobs and lives of there own so can't take him that often.

As for feeling pressured I'm not 100% sure where this comes from. I have never demanded/nagged/begged for sex, I have never forced her to any degree. Maybe a previous relationship...

In relation to her possibly not being into me anymore... that would be shit to hear but it would be the truth. In pp I listed things DW has said that she finds me attractive, loves me and enjoys sex...but just doesn't want it....This just doesn't make sense to me. You can't feel all of that, you either want someone or you don't? It would make sense that she's burying her head in the sand. I'm not going to give up yet, we need to try something first.

Is she depressed or have PND or PNA? Low/non existent libido can often go hand in hand with these conditions.

Really hadn't considered that, I would never say she has seemed that down or to be struggling. I just looked at some of the symptoms on NHS website, some certainly ring true while many do not...but I guess it is different for all women so not my place to diagnose it anyway... I will bear this in mind for sure

In pp I listed things DW has said that she finds me attractive, loves me and enjoys sex...but just doesn't want it....This just doesn't make sense to me.

I think this could all be true actually... for me at least there is an element of "getting out of the habit" of sec and feeling like having sex. If I haven't had any for ages I kind of stop thinking about it. Then if I have more I think about it more. So, vicious and virtual cycles iyswim. If this is what's going on then the good news is it can be fixed, the bad news is she has to want to fix it as the way to fix it is for her to just get on and have sex even if she doesn't immediately feel like it that moment and/or to learn to initiate sex whenever she feels so much as a glimmer of libido.

The other possibility as pp said is she just doesn't feel the same about you any more... but then, why wouldn't she say so (since she doesn't seem especially concerned with sparing your feelings!!)

I would agree with suggestion of Relate as it seems like you're not to get to the bottom of how she really feels otherwise (and therefore whether this is fixable or not).

She doesn't say so because she doesn't want the marriage to be over.

It's definitely possible to fancy the arse off someone but not want sex with them

My child was 12 months old before I went to the GP and was diagnosed for post-natal depression. It was "atypical" in that I was functioning quite well. In fact nobody would have ever known about the silent screaming inside. I was so ashamed to tell my husband who was full of praise at how I was doing so well. But I was an automation, who got no enjoyment out of anything. I was also irritable as hell. Life was just task-based shit, and I was shit, and I looked shit, and I felt shit, and I snapped a lot.

So sometimes depression doesn't look like you'd expect.

I suppose the crucial question my GP asked me was "what are you looking forward to?" I gaped at her. Nothing! Was she on crack??! What the fuck was there to look forward to?? More nappies, more housework, more groundhog day?

The depression questionnaire is called phq9, but it doesn't have that question on there. It should really.

How old are you both?

It's an absolute fact, that women hit their peak sexually, in their late 30's and this carries through the 40's. So, if she's a lot younger than that, and with a baby thrown in to the mix, I'm not surprised you're not getting much action.

It may get better. It may not.

You really need to sit her down and lay cards on the table.

You can't carry on like this!

So we had a good chat about all of this on Thursday afternoon.

She maintains she enjoys sex, but she just never thinks of it and just doesn't see herself having the energy or time.

I think I have developed some sort of complex over all this...I'm really anxious about initiating these days which obviously won't help...but when your partner shows so little interest I'm not surprised!

We decided to set ourselves some targets. I need to work on initiating more as she seemed keen that it would help. DW needs to work on this 'never thinks of it' attitude. We are going to try and make some changes to give us both more time together and alone too.

One thing that's sticking with me in all the positivity...she kept saying she doesn't think she will change, "that's how I am" etc. So bloody frustrating as I'm asking her to try and she's giving up before she has even started. She is worried that she won't be able to do much to make this better, I told her all I'm asking is for her to try, only she can do that.

I have tried to explain how miserable this leaves me. I don't expect her to move heaven and earth over this but she needs to understand that just because it's not that important to her it doesn't mean I feel the same. We need to compromise and meet in the middle on this not just follow one persons preferences.

We are both early 30's, I'm feeling more aware of PND now pp have raised it...I'm going to keep an eye on this and do a bit more research, appreciate that needs to be treated carefully.

We have been much more cuddly since Thursday afternoon, DW currently on her period so we will see how the next few weeks go.

I recognise a lot of myself in your description of your wife.

I've finally got back into having sex having had a v high sex drive before children. Our DC3 is now 22 months, but I would say my sex drive really only came back in the last few months. It was the same after my previous two children, it just took a good 18 months to feel like myself again. Perhaps hormonal/adjusting to new relationship dynamics/finding a pelvic floor/confidence/sleep/mental load of being a mother. I'm not sure really, perhaps a combination of all of the above.

I love my husband dearly, I think he is utterly gorgeous, I just wasn't feeling like sex- had no physical compulsion to do it.

Having said that... reformer (machine) Pilates made a big difference- gave me energy physically and confidence in my body. Also fabulous time off, quite meditative. Does she exercise outside of family walks/running after a small child?

And do you do romantic things? Have date nights? I don't mean a bottle in front of Netflix but go out together (get a baby sitter) and have FUN. Have day time dates too- art galleries, museums, something to engage her brain.

I bet she didn't tell you before you got married that she wasn't really into sex and you, and she was pretending a lot in order to get you hooked, and that she primarily sees you as a baby making machine. My God, there's so many women like that. Unfortunately you are one of their victims.

And no, she doesn't enjoy sex because if you enjoy something you want to repeat the experience.

Confession from me: for about theee years after having ds I felt about sex like I felt about the gym or going for a run. I quite enjoyed it during and felt great after but before hand it felt like a horrendous chore that I hadn’t the energy to contemplate.
I did get over those feelings.
A weekend away without ds really helped. Far more than I thought it would. And him just being less physically dependent on me.

DW does no real exercise, aside from looking after DS. We used to share dog walks but that's been left to me since DS was born.

Babysitter out of the question for DW, not keen at all. PIL's take DS from time to time but not often, they work and have plenty on themselves to be honest. My parents live too far away.

I worked from home Friday, I bunked off a bit and did loads of housework to clear our weekend a bit. Saturday morning I told her to stay in bed, I took DS swimming on my own, after he had first nap I took him out with me food shopping and told her to relax. Saturday afternoon I spent lots more time with DS, cooked (as always), washed up (as always), did bathtime, had to take over bedtime as he wasn't playing ball with DW, and took night shift (luckily he slept through)

I quite literally could not have done more this weekend. Despite all that she seems more tired and irritable. Been randomly bossy and critical.

Tonight DS smashed a xmas tree bauble while I was cooking dinner. DW was in another room, luckily she reached him before he cut himself. I cleaned it all up. Now I'm being told that it wasn't her fault, being treated like a naughty child, she can't do anything right. I told her with no uncertainty it was her fault, it was totally avoidable and shouldn't have happened. He cannot be left alone with the tree!!!

Now receiving silent treatment

I have done more reading on PND, it's ringing more and more true. Tried opening conversation that I am worried about her, didn't mention PND specifically but she has shut down and won't talk about it...I'm so worried about her.

Omg I just want to scream

Seriously, it's not her fault. Even if you have eyes on a child they can get to things before you do. And you shouldn't be blaming her/telling her off. It's a fucking bauble. Yes he could have been cut, it would obviously be better if he wasn't cut! It's not as if she's negligent. But I actually find it quite scary that you have reacted by telling her off and telling her she is effectively a bad parent as it's her fault and she should have parented differently.

Then, now that she feels like shit as a parent, you are trying to open up a conversation that she might be depressed/something wrong with her.

I'm sorry, I know you are trying, but I think you are really not going about it well this evening.

Also, I think it's great you do half of everything at home, but that's fair- you shouldn't get extra praise for being a man that does that... I'm just saying. Maybe you do do absolutely everything as you seem to suggest, maybe she would have a lot to say about that.

In any case, the way you have told her off... well, most husbands would have their arse handed to them on a plate.

I realise that things are stressful currently but if you want to move forward I think you should apologise for how you have treated her this evening.

Also, what do you do wrong in your relationship or what do you have issues with? You seem to present this scenario as all her being in the wrong/her behaviour etc.

Do you 'tell her off' often? If you do, you have your answer right there.

I see where you are coming from, but to explain.

I in no way told her off, I didn't get angry or shout. I was a bit in shock, quite scary to be honest. Not really had anything like that happen before.

I phrased my pp poorly, reading it back it does sound like I was much more aggressive/shouty than I actually was.

I neither expect or require praise for how much I have done this weekend or any other time. I was just using that as context, that I have tried to lighten her load so we can have more time together. DW does loads and works very hard, I never ignore this and am very grateful.

I do plenty wrong, but I admit it and try to improve. I'm not perfect, I'm sure at many times I have been crap, not pulled my weight. If I was supposed to be watching DS and he hurt himself due to me slacking off I don't think I would be treated any differently.

If the baubles are dangerous take them off the fgs! I never once had to worry about my kids with the tree.

Er you said that you told her with no uncertainty it was her fault and that it was unavoidable. That is the very definition of telling her off isn't it??!

I don't think you have a sex problem as such, more a relationship problem. It may well stem from her, I wouldn't know, but you really come across with a bit of a martyr self righteous attitude. And when called on it, you side stepped it really.
You were wrong, you shouldn't have spoken to her like that. When referring to what she did as 'slacking' you are exposing and exemplifing your judgemental approach to her. Stop the blame game, it helps no one. You both love your child and most of the time are probably fabulous parents. No one will feel worse than your wife, the blaming her was utterly unnecessary. We all fuck up (this was so so minor).

I think you should go to relate or similar, because it sounds like you both need it, frankly.
If you approach going to seek help by using examples of what she is doing wrong then I'm not sure you'll get very far. Maybe use your own failings in your relationship as the starting point, so she doesn't feel any more useless in family life.

And yes, why on earth have glass baubles if you're worried about that?! Take them off and get plastic ones that be scrunched, chewed, stamped on, whatever.

After so long she’s probably feeling pressured (by knowing she should do it more, not necessarily by you) so it’s become a thing in her head and that’s really unsexy.
Plus over the last two years she’s had a major body change and is probably still dealing with that.

I totally get what she means about liking sex but not really thinking about it, I do the same thing - I have other things on my mind and I just don’t really think about it most of the time.
Try to be romantic Rather than focusing on the sex, work on the intimacy and emotional connection.

The pressure comes from the knowledge that according to the ‘way the world works’ she should want and be having more sex, and the knowledge that you want it and she’s not giving you what you want. Maybe her sex drive has decreased since DS and she knows she should be wanting sex but just doesn’t ... and that’s hard. It’s an internal pressure.

Your last 2 posts sound like you are heading completely the wrong way in terms of sorting this out. It doesn't sound like you have much respect for your wife and if you carry on this self righteous course it is likely to be better for her if you do separate. Having babies/toddlers is a very difficult time. It is such a short period of time in the grand scheme of things. If you chuck away your chances of a family life after a year of not feeling you are important enough, you can't place all of the blame on your wife.
It will be totally obvious that you are being 'patient' with her and she knows you want more sex, she must be utterly stifled now. Back off a bit, give a few months and see where things are. Be nice to her because you love and care about her not because you want sex.

So I apologised before we went to bed, I had been a dick. Thanks for pointing that out.

All I meant last night is, when that incident happened, I didn't tell her off. I didn't shout or roll my eyes, I just cleaned it up. It was later on when all of a sudden she seems angry at me for being angry at her and it wasn't her fault that set me off. I wasn't angry at her and hadn't mentioned fault.

We really don't argue very often, this is a rare occurrence. Albeit poorly timed!

Either way irrelevant I suppose. I have taken all your points on board.

The issue hasn't been the lack of sex as such, it's been complete lack of any intimacy. I think I mentioned we have been working on being closer which is going well, perhaps we have some more issues to work on.

I think last night was handled poorly and I was a dick, I don't think that's a reflection of me generally, I think this is a complex subject and it's difficult to discuss in enough detail here...but relate could be useful to us.

Thanks all for your replies

I went through a patch with my dp when he got upset that we weren't having sex as often as he wanted to, I did feel pressured and annoyed and he felt unloved and rejected. My libido has dipped a lot but i am a lot older than your wife. He has backed off a bit, and I initiate when I get the slightest twinge of desire. And sometimes I just give him oral sex or use my hands. But it sounds like if she doesnt want you to use your hands, or receive oral sex, and she doesn't ever masturbate then it might be a sexual issue on her part, most women don't orgasm through penetrative sex only.