How do you have sex?

[ordinaryman]

Okay, I know the title will have raised a few eyebrows, but to be clear I'm not looking for a titillation, or a precis of The Joy of Sex. I'm a married middle aged man and I know what goes where physically, so...

As with many on the Relationships forum, I have been trying to give it one more go at bringing-back the intimacy and sex to my marriage, or else I fear we may not be together for many more years. Anyway, I don't want to go over all the details of that again here, so will stick to the point of my question...

In the spirit of getting things going again in the bedroom after a long gap (and precious little action in the years since kids arrived), i thought I'd ask how / when / where people are doing it? My wife and I have the whole 'flat mate' thing going on and it's pretty awkward starting the "why don't we nip up to the bedroom?..." converation, especially where one party (my wife in this case, though I see many women have the same issue with their men) doesn't initiate anything herself, doesn't seem to have much libido and needs some gentle reminders and encouragement that this part of our relationship is important.

So what do you do to get things started? The straight and direct approach, or something more subtle? During the day whilst the kids are at school, or middle of the night? In the bedroom, or happy with the sofa?

Apologies if any of this seems facile or obvious, but I'm anxious neither to pussy-foot around the issue if the honest, direct, here and now is favoured, nor to be too direct, explicit or pushy, if something more sensitive should be the order of the day.

Thoughts?...

singandsing
"you should feel free to seek sexual contentment elsewhere [...] You can do this in private without her knowing and keep your family life sound."
This is offensive bullshit. Looking elsewhere for sex is not "keeping your family life sound"
The way I see it, the OP's options are:

1. Persuade his wife to attend couple's counselling and/or sex therapy to help them have a sex life they're both happy with
2. TALK to his wife about the possibility of an open marriage so he can seek sex elsewhere but SHE KNOWS ABOUT IT
3. Leave his wife

I would try them in that order, ie if she refuses 1, suggest 2, and if she refuses that too, 3 is the only option.

Nope she doesn't want sex and is protecting herself with the clothes.
I don't think k she is involved in the relationship from what you've said.
Why she doesn't want to talk about it is another issue? (is she afraid it will lead to a divorce?)
So is the fact that she is staying in a relationship where she is unhappy (at least that's how it sounds from your description)

Btw if you thought that marriage meant sex, I hope you had a chat with her about it before getting married. Because I didn't and if DH had told me that, I wouldn't have got married. The reason is simple. You gave no idea what lies ahead and the reasons why you would want to stop having Dec are so numerous that it would mean that I felt I would have to 'perform' and 'lie down and think of England' at some point in my life even if I didn't like it (eg after having children, being ill, just tired etc etc)
I do agree that intimacy should be present and the fact it isn't looks to me like the relationship has run its course. But I have to ask: would you be happy with intimacy and no sex?
Because what you are asking is how to convince her to have more sex (which I don't think you can btw) not how can I recreate intimacy.

What AnotherEmma says, with bells on.

I don't agree.
No point talking about Dec counselling if there is no intimacy at all.
There is a reason gut the no intimacy and I susie t the OP will find he has played a role in that, regardless of how adamant he is that he has done everything by the book.
It takes two to establish z relationship. Imo it also takes two to destroy it (bar abuse of course, but that's not what we are talking about here)

I used to work with a lot of women who said they couldn't be bothered having sex. "I'd rather have a cup of tea" was a really common statement. I do wonder what people who think like that (ie nothing really up with the bloke, just can't be bothered) think their partners should do. They'd be horrified at an affair, yet offer no intimacy themselves. Being rejected time and again must be really horrible. I feel for you, OP.

OP, it sounds like you're doing all the work, and she's doing nothing.

I wonder if there's a way of devolving some responsibility back to her. For example, asking her "what would it take for us to be intimate again - what would I need to do?".

Well it's normal. She doesn't have an issue if she doesn't miss the sex...

Can u be honest about the 'I'd rather have a cup of tea?'
Women who say that often have a partner with poor skills (so they aren't feeling satisfied by the Dec they have) orbthecrebstik ship is dead romantically (so you don't have any intimacy either).
It's easy to say 'oh it's the woman's fat because she can't be bothered'. Looking at the reasons why she can't (usually her needs arent fulfilled) will shade a different light to things! A
Should a woman dutifully have sex with a man that doesn't satisfy her? That sounds very much a one way thing doesnt it?

I said that I knew women who said they couldn't be bothered. It wasn't the OP.

I'd skip trying to be romantic, making gestures of intimacy and just talk to her! Have a conversation be honest and find out why she doesn't want to have sex. Then you have a good starting point. I don't understand couples that don't talk about issues.

@singandsing - A third party sex partner, paid or otherwise, agreed or otherwise, is not what I want. I personally don't find the suggestion offensive, but it's just not for me.
@mercifulTehlu - Agreed.
@TheToys - Quite possibly, but honesty is still the key here. If it's an issue we can discuss / deal with then lets do it, if it isn't then she should say so, so we can decide where to go from here.
@AnotherEmma - There is unfortunately the fourth option , which is to stay and put up with it. Not a good option, but with kids and little money, one that has to be on the table too.
@HappyNevertheless - She may be worried about divorce, but it's actually her who has brought that up each time we've discussed lack of intimacy and sex. I have been very careful never to threaten that, as I don't feel creating an ultimatum would have been helpful up to now. My belief is that she is mentioning it to 'shock' me into backing down rather than as something she remotely wants.
Re. marriage vows - it's for whoever takes a vow to understand what it means, not for me in this instance to have to explain it to anyone. Sex is in there, fact. Indeed, I believe it is still the case that a marriage can be declared null and void until it has taken place. But that wasn't really my point, which was that breach of marriage vows is always mentioned when one party seeks extra-marital sex, but no-one mentions breach of vows when one party to a marriage denies sex to the other. Without prior agreement, both are adulterous IMO
I am not trying to convince my wife to have sex. On the presupposition that she is true to HER WORD and does want sex, I am asking forum members for their views on what is the best situation / environment / means of getting-things-going to encourage, facilitate, support and promote the re-start of such activities.
@ImperialBlether - Thanks for your support. I think you could be right. One way or another, her inaction shows it's clearly not important to her.
@SauvignonPlonker - I good idea; I shall ask her that very question.
@HappyNevertheless - (again :) ) When I wrote to her and spoke to her, I stated that I was perfectly willing to accept that I may be doing some things wrong or adopting the wrong approach. I asked her to tell me what she needed from me, what she would like in the relationship and sexually, and what she would like me to change. I have received no practical reply, so in the absence of that, I really don't think she (if this is what she's doing) has the right to grumble away secretly and blame me for everything, when she refuses to communicate.
@LazySusan - If you read through, you'll see I have tried talking with her. Over many years.

You may not like this but I had zero interest in sex with my exH. Four years later we are divorced and I have had great sex with a few different men. It wasn't sex I didn't want, it really was him. Sorry. We did have other stuff going on though.

@Temporaryanonymity - No need to apologise. I have come to terms with the fact that this might be the (or at least one) reason. If so, all she has to do is tell me and then at least I'll know.

I probably wouldn't have known then what I know now. I probably would have said it was sex I'd gone off. It was only when we separated and I had an ill-advised fling with an ex that I realised I had definitely found my mojo.

talking is sexy. In my relationship we start to feel distant and have less intimate and sexual contact if we are busy and not taking time to really connect through a proper conversation. When we do connect in this way, feeling erotic towards one another follows. So- take her on a date and have a good old chat with her. Break down the barriers of habit and really talk.

I think sex is an important part of a long term relationship. Intimacy leads to sex. Sex for us usually starts with one of us hugging the other, nuzzling then kissing their neck, then a "snog". Sometimes one of us doesn't want to, but a lot of the time it leads to foreplay then sex. Sometimes we stop at foreplay (usually when dp has had one to many and peters out or I start feeling sleepy) and sometimes a kiss leads straight to business (if we're due to go out somewhere but dc already with babysitter, and some time to kill etc).

We hug each other all the time, even through our worst dry spell (a few weeks when dp was feeling very low mentally) we hugged each other all the time, held hands, cuddled in bed or on the couch. Back rubs (and the odd busting of a spot) weren't embarrased to be naked or get changed in front of each other.

Your wifes total lack of affection and touching would really affect me. I'm very touchy feely. I love running my hands through dh's hair, and even just resting my head on his chest, and vice versa.

Hate saying it, but sex 20 times in 10 years probably means your wife just isn't that way inclined, and doesn't enjoy sex.

That's on average of twice year? Once every 6 months? Or where a lot of those twenty times bunched together ttc?