How do you have sex?

[ordinaryman]

Okay, I know the title will have raised a few eyebrows, but to be clear I'm not looking for a titillation, or a precis of The Joy of Sex. I'm a married middle aged man and I know what goes where physically, so...

As with many on the Relationships forum, I have been trying to give it one more go at bringing-back the intimacy and sex to my marriage, or else I fear we may not be together for many more years. Anyway, I don't want to go over all the details of that again here, so will stick to the point of my question...

In the spirit of getting things going again in the bedroom after a long gap (and precious little action in the years since kids arrived), i thought I'd ask how / when / where people are doing it? My wife and I have the whole 'flat mate' thing going on and it's pretty awkward starting the "why don't we nip up to the bedroom?..." converation, especially where one party (my wife in this case, though I see many women have the same issue with their men) doesn't initiate anything herself, doesn't seem to have much libido and needs some gentle reminders and encouragement that this part of our relationship is important.

So what do you do to get things started? The straight and direct approach, or something more subtle? During the day whilst the kids are at school, or middle of the night? In the bedroom, or happy with the sofa?

Apologies if any of this seems facile or obvious, but I'm anxious neither to pussy-foot around the issue if the honest, direct, here and now is favoured, nor to be too direct, explicit or pushy, if something more sensitive should be the order of the day.

Thoughts?...

Honestly I would start with intimacy in other ways before going for full on sex.

Kissing, starting with lingering pecks then a few snogs. And go from there over weeks, not days.

Pretend your 17 again. There is nothing more off putting than going from mundane chores to be expected to enjoy sex especially when there awkwardness there.

Are you sharing a bed? If not work up to that, first. Way before sex.

Is your relationship healthy in other ways? Do you actually still like/love/fancy each other. I'm much more likely to want sex if my husband is being attentive, funny and kind - think a foot rub on the sofa, making a cup of tea or the evening on a date. Have your talked to her about your relationship? As an aside - there is nothing less likely to make a woman feel turned on than feeling bullied or cajouled into sex. Good luck op your situation sounds sad for all concerned.

Starting with intimacy is good, but there is none there at the moment. We don't hold hands, kiss or cuddle.

Yes, I still love her and want her in all ways and yes, we are sharing a bed, though she goes up before me to 'get a good night's sleep' and gets up before me, even if it's the weekend and the kids are not yet awake.

Alas, we're neither of us near 17 (more's the pity!) and I've tried for all this time with simply being a good, kind, attentive husband and father and avoiding any pressure lest it be counter-productive, but there comes a point where it's decision time - does she ever want to be intimate with me again, or is it over?

We have had many a 'discussion' about it (started by me) but it brings about a temporary boost at best, before things settle back to nothing. I think she is content without it and just expects me to be too, but in my view, this was never agreed and she is now witholding intimacy arbitrarily.

It sounds like neither of you want/provide any intimacy. If it was me I would be thinking - we have no intimacy but he keeps talking about sex. Do you ask for sex or intimacy? I agree you need to decide whether to make your relationship work or to go your separate ways. Reading between the lines she sounds unhappy too.

@Fragglewump "It sounds like neither of you want/provide any intimacy..."

This isn't the case. As I said in my last post, "I still love her and want her in all ways".

I do want intimacy (as well as sex) and I have tried to provide it many times, but she either ignores things like my putting my arm round her in bed (ie: never responds to hold me too) or shrinks away from me if I try a gentle hug.

She may be unhappy with what she sees as 'her lot', but I really can't see that she's unhappy about us, as she's never once initiated any intimacy herself, or raised the discussion (which surely you would do if you were unhappy, as I have?)

I really can't see that she's unhappy about us, as she's never once initiated any intimacy herself, or raised the discussion (which surely you would do if you were unhappy, as I have?)

It could be a case that her actions speak louder than words.

Following, as I'm like your DW. If she's anything like me then she probably shrinks away because she knows that any physical contact will lead to an expectation of sex.

From talking to my friends, I have concluded that for many women, libido simply drops off with the peri menopause/ menopause. It's not something much talked about, and no doubt loads of poster will come on and say that they are 52 and still gagging for it. Anyhow, just an observation.

I would start with being kind and affectionate, without it always leading to sex. Think back to when you started dating, there is a courtship, romantic gestures, little surprises. For most, a lot of that stops or dwindles. Foreplay beforehand, taking time for your wife's enjoyment as well as for yours. I think you need to get back to basics, instead of concentrating on sex. Do you get her gifts and cards for birthdays /anniversaries? Do you say thank you for all the things she does around your home. Do you help with housework /children? Do you still take care of your appearance/personal hygiene? Do you complement your wife? Is she feeling taken for granted and under appreciated, if so, sex is probably the last thing on her mind. I hope you find your way back to happiness.

I think OP your wife's actions are the key. So my guess is she enjoys being married, the friendship and sharing the childcare etc. She no longer wants to have sex. Maybe not at all, or dare I say it, not with you. Either way, she should be willing to be honest,and talk about the situation with you, and enable you to decide whether you wish to stay in a sexless marriage or not.

In my opinion, I don't think things will get better, she's not going to suddenly change and start being affectionate. The question is what do you want to do?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2626913-Anyone-else-married-but-living-in-celibacy

Very similar topic.

I can only say what is important for me, (it might not be for her)

• even before intimacy, feeling appreciated is the start. Someone making a cup of tea, telling me just to enjoy said cup of tea whilst he is putting the dcs in bed etc you get the picture.

Nice comments, listening g to me and talking to me etc

• intimacy, yes but not the full in one with a cuddle etc. If she has I her mind, cuddle=sex, she isn't going to be happy about it. So I'm thinking hand holding, slight touch etc. Then after a while I would hope she feels ok with a cuddle.

YY about cuddling in bed when/if she feels like it.

• intimacy as in sharing hopes and struggles, emotions and feelings. Not the heavy way (I love you so much that I can't cope not been able to touch you type of conversations) but about the future, what makes you two tick, is important etc.
• then you might be able to talk sex.

Ime, it's a long hardeous road and it is quite possible that your DW will never get her mojo back.
You can try and set the right conditions but sometimes irreparable damage has been done.

It would be useful to receive posts from people who went off sex with their partners. Why the situation was/is not discussed? I imagine that most people who respond would not fall into the category of those who are not willing to discuss the issue.

Some posters addressed why they went off sex in the living in celibacy thread. I think for some women, it can be hormone based due to menopause. I think for some people, they need to be feeling it, in order to want to do it. The only person who can offer the most insight into op's relationship, is his wife. We only have one side of the story. How often on mn, do we hear about poster's dh being perceived as being great and fantastic, yet behind closed doors, can be the total opposite. I'm not saying op is like that, but no one knows why his wife is no longer interested in sex. We can try to guess, but unless she is willing to have that discussion with him, no one else really knows.

When I was with my exh I had little sex drive. Kids were smaller and I was on hormonal contraceptive either pill or implant and that just sapped everything. When he had snip and I came off pill I was a different woman. Is your wife on contraception?

I agree it starts with intimacy and being kind to each other. I found it hard to feel intimate towards ex if we had argued or he had spoken to me harshly.

Maybe make it clear not all physical intimacy needs to end in sex. As I used to fear that too so avoided it altogether.

You need to have an honest conversation. Exh and I never talked about sex and what we liked etc until he had had snip and contraception not an issue. I suppose sex before that had been functional for reproducing. Which sounds harsh but in hindsight true.

With my DP now again no contraception. We also talk about sex a lot and what we like etc.

Could you buy something from love honey as a starting point and to open up the conversation? Maybe look at the site together?

it would be useful to receive posts from people who went off sex with their partners

My experience, in case it helps:

As a pp suggested, my DH only wants to be intimate if he thinks he'll get sex. He'd never do something nice for me just because. There's always an agenda.

He treats me like a maid, doesn't lift a finger around the house. Massive turn off.

He doesn't wash regularly.

But most crucially he has no interest in whether or not sex is satisfying for me. He's only in it for himself.

Not saying you do any of that though, OP! I wonder if you'd be better to post in relationships?

Ok, I went off it a bit. Think it had to do with
Peri menopause, hormonal stuff
Feeling a bit old and unattractive
Just feeling a bit distanced from DH, who seems to have had a bit of a mid life crises

What has helped
Reconnecting and being reassured by DH. But it took him actually saying "Tink I still fancy you, it's not just cos I'm desparate for a shag."
Hormonal stuff easing off.

Thanks for the replies.

Indeed, I have been participating in both the 'celibacy' and 'unsatisfying marriages' threads, in the Relationships section, which is why I was specifically asking about the sex element here (I appreciate that the relationship background is important, but as you say, that's something I and others are dealing with in detail on that section of the forum).

I probably haven't explained myself very well, but what I was really looking for here (from those who do still manage to share and enjoy some kind of sex life after years of marriage / partnership) is just how you actually approach it and how does it work for you on a day-to-day practical level?

Not sure if that helps it here is my two pences.
Background: I gave chronic illness that is leaving me exhausted and is reducing my ability to have/want sex a lot.
I've also gone through a very bad patch relationship wise, incl the dreaded a simple cuddle= sex and the grumpiness that comes with saying NO.

Being the one with the lower sex drive, I am the one who initiates most of the time. DH is leaving me taking the lead, knowing well that the issue isn't me not fancying him or anything like that.
I don't mean that he isn't 'allowed' or that he will be badly received if he does. Sometimes, he does. Sometimes, it just happens (it feels right to both of us. No one is really taking the lead). But most of the time, I'm the one in charge.
That means I also need to be careful and sometimes remember that it didnt happen for a while. So I will make an extra effort (sometimes it does cost me health wise as in I'm going to be shattered the next day and it will take me a few days to recover).
But as I am the only one to be able to say how I feel, it feels right for me to be the one saying so.

needs some gentle reminders and encouragement that this part of our relationship is important.

Do you think your wife feels as though she is important? I only ask because, from personal experience, I know it's very hard to continue to feel turned on by a man who no longer makes an effort to make you feel wanted, attractive & appreciated in non sexual ways. This works both ways of course.

That may well not be you at all - you may well be a lovely, kind, thoughtful, romantic gentleman. I hope you are but that was my experience of the same.

OK, sorry, x-posted with your last post OP.

Starting slowly with a cuddle on the sofa, a kiss, telling her how beautiful she's looking etc. That would be my recommendation.

Yeah, sounds pretty much as I have tried, alas without it going anywhere. I do appreciate the whole 'don't create a pressurised' environment', etc. but I think after years of doing romantic stuff and just trying to be a good husband (and for the last year making zero sexual moves), I should be able to expect either a) some kind of sexual relations that indicate our marriage is still alive, or b) an explanation as to why it isn't and a frank discussion about where we go from here(?)

I wrote her a letter a couple of years back, accepting that maybe my approach or other things I did were wrong and giving her ample opportunity to respond. All I got was the 'it's not you, it's me' response, which is either a) true (inwhich case she needs to seek help if she cares about our relationship) or b) untrue (in which case we're going to get nowhere if she won't be honest with me).

I also understand the whole 'cuddle / box of chocolates / flowers = sex' turn-off, but that put-down can't be used as a defence mechanism indefinitely (ie: I'm doing all the right stuff for years, then I finally try to gently take things to the bedroom and am slapped-down with "oh I see, it's all been about sex hasn't it!?" ten years in...

And for the record, I am okay looking, good hygiene, working, faithful, helpful around the house.

Anyway, I said I'd leave the relationship stuff to the Relationship forum, so...

Does anybody schedule their sex, eg: each Monday morning and Friday night, etc.? I know it sounds bl**dy unromantic, but wondered whether it would help with the getting back into a routine and wouldn't be so awkward to bring-up, if we both knew in advance when we were going to DTD?

It's laughable that you think the sex issue is separate from the relationship issue.

She doesn't want to have sex with you, there are no magic buttons you can press to make her have sex with you.

You have to actually talk to her about it. If you find that difficult perhaps you could suggest couple's counselling. If she refuses to talk about it or go to counselling, your options are to accept a sexless marriage or leave.

There are plenty of things you could do to rekindle the intimacy but if she's not interested there's no point in us telling you what those things are.

What makes you think that scheduling it is going to make her want sex any more than she does now? I agree with pp, you cannot separate the sex and the relationship. The two are very much intertwined, I think particularly for women. The fact that you seem to be concerned with the practical side of things suggests that you really don't understand your wife's needs.

Do you ever just flirt with your wife?