Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Advice needed pls - Do you think this teacher is BU, and what do I say to her?

103 replies

ilovepiccolina · 30/11/2009 21:24

DS is 16 and takes his mock Maths GCSE this week, real thing in the summer. For the past few weeks he's been coming home saying that Miss sent him out of the class for no good reason. I know that he can fidget, not listen etc so have ignored this. Then on Friday he came home angry, frustrated and upset, saying that he had put his head down briefly onto the desk, and she had shouted 'Right, out NOW' etc. & made him stand outside for 15 mins. Another boy was sent out for making a noise as he yawned. (They were both 'disrupting' the class.) He says that this was totally unjustified.

She'd gone home by this time so I've sent a note asking her to ring me. I am very concerned that DS is missing valuable tuition in a subject he struggles with. I bumped into at CA friend who's worked with this teacher, she said if she was the parent she would kick up a stink, and that the teacher is hopeless at teaching basically - she doesn't get 'on task' for the first 20 mins so no wonder the dch get bored/sleepy/distracted.

Why couldn't she have said to DS 'Sit up straight!' He said he would have. Is there not a better way of dealing with this behaviour? DS says all the other teachers ignore it.

What should I do?

OP posts:
chosenone · 30/11/2009 21:30

Ask for an appointment with her, or even a telephone appointment. Be friendly and positive and come from the angle that you want to ensure that he is going to meet his target/predicted grade or higher. See if she mentions behaviour. If she says she's been sending him out, ask for him to be relocated to another member of the Maths dept so he can still complete the work. See if there's anything you can do to support him and her so he can achieve, you could ask for a behaviour report if she thinks there is a problem. It can be recorded for all to see. He may need targets like no fidgeting or no low level disruption, this will make expectatations clear and perceptions of his behaviour clear.

Original poster
ilovepiccolina · 30/11/2009 21:36

OK, thanks for the 'targets' suggestion. Can I really ask for him to be put with someone else? It's a bit late for not mentioning behaviour - in my note I put that I wondered if there was some other way for him to be punished rather than sending him out.

OP posts:
chosenone · 30/11/2009 21:39

Thats good, sending him out is meant to be a temporary measure or if behaviour is completely unacceptable. Teachers some times need to relocate students to other members of staff or their Head of dept, not unreasonable to ask especially as its Year 11 and he's wasting time on the corridor!

Original poster
ilovepiccolina · 30/11/2009 21:50

Oh good, I'll quote you! 'temporary measure' and 'if behaviour is completely unacceptable'. I would much rather she gave him extra homework/detention in the library to make him do it.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 30/11/2009 21:58

We have a two minute rule for putting students on the corridor. After that we take them in or send them elsewhere with some work to do.

It's always hard when you only have one side. I can see how exaggerated yawning could be both disruptive and unacceptably rude. But I also know that yelling and sending people out is not an effective way to manage a class. I would definitely speak to her and say you are aware that he has been sent out of her lessons fairly frequently and you want to discuss what can be done to resolve the situation.

I think the TA shouldn't be telling parents that teachers are rubbish.

CertainAge · 01/12/2009 05:55

Teenagers will always say there is no good reason when they don't get their own way.

He will not have been sent out of the class unless he was being disruptive.

So, the teacher can't cope with unruly teenage boys, but why should she have to? What about the education of those who genuinely want to learn?

SofiaAmes · 01/12/2009 06:05

It's rude for your son to go to sleep (or put his head down on his desk) in class and for the other child to yawn loudly. I don't blame the teacher for being upset. At 16 your ds is old enough to recognize that this behavior is rude and be able to curb it in a classroom setting. I am surprised that you don't find his behavior unacceptable. If the teacher is inadequate, then there are numerous appropriate ways of complaining. Your ds is old enough to avail himself of one of them.

CertainAge · 01/12/2009 06:55

I am wondering if this teacher has ever had the chance to blossom. It sounds like she is having to do crowd control rather than teach.

It is sad that educational standards have got to the point that low-level disruption is seem as acceptable behaviour, and that parents condone and defend this behaviour.

cory · 01/12/2009 07:46

I can completely see how one student putting his head on the desk and pretending to go to sleep while his friend yawns exaggeratedly could be not only disrupting the class at the whole, but be unbelievably rude to the adult who is trying to teach.

You need to talk to your son about what he is doing in class and how he is making other people feel. Would he like it if his friends behaved this way to him, pretending to go to sleep when he tried to tell them something? He'd think it was bullying, wouldn't he? So that is what he is essentially doing to the teacher.

Original poster
ilovepiccolina · 01/12/2009 11:23

FallenMadonna - why shouldn't she be honest with me? She is an experienced retired teacher who helps out. She is fed up with seeing two teachers (out of dozens of good ones at this school) fail to engage the dch, waffling on etc. They know their subjects but IHO can't communicate them. ie, Teach. Why should problems like this be swept under the carpet?
I'm not the only parent to have probs with this teacher, just I'm too chicken to complain, as others have done.

I don't dispute that messing about/showing off in class is unacceptable. I have told him a hundred times. He was 16 two weeks ago. He is immature. She is an adult. I don't think her behaviour is accetable either, but didn't know how to tackle it.

OP posts:
Original poster
ilovepiccolina · 01/12/2009 12:56

I am worried sick about DS's Maths results. He is predicted an E, yet in Geography he is doing brilliantly, predicted a B but currently working at A. It must be something to do with the teachers, no? He needs Maths for the college course he wants. He knows this too, so tries his hardest to behave, he says!! But she picks on him, alledgedly.

I hear what you are saying about only having one side of the story (his). He was very angry, however, at the injustice of this one incident, says no-one but her noticed. The 'yawning' incident happened after he had been sent out - it wasn't as though they were ganging up to disrupt her lesson.

OP posts:
titchy · 01/12/2009 13:08

Perhpas he just isn't very good at Maths and that's why he's predicted an E - rather than being the teachers' faults....

Original poster
ilovepiccolina · 01/12/2009 15:48

I don't get it - yes, he struggles with Maths, so if you were his parent you would just accept that your DS will get an E?

He needs more tuition, not less. Not being sent out all the time. Couldn't he be set extra work instead or something? Practising over & over with it. When I go over stuff with him & he 'gets' it, he's thrilled. Trouble is, much of it is beyond me

Do you think that if he had her for Geography he'd be working at an A in it?

It's after 3.30pm. I'm waiting for her to call.

OP posts:
roisin · 01/12/2009 18:16

Has she phoned? I really think you are more likely to make some progress if you accept that the cause of the problems in class are largely with your son rather than with the teacher, and that therefore the solution also lies with him.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/12/2009 21:03

#if your friend has concerns about a colleague's professionalism, then she needs to raise that in school, and not gossip to parents about it. That is not acceptable.

If he is putting his head on the table he is not trying his hardest to behave in her lessons. What is his target grade in Maths? What did he get at KS3?

Goblinchild · 01/12/2009 21:33

Don't know how it works in your area, but young persons here who go to college and are disruptive or unmotivated tend not to be invited back after the holidays.
If he needs to be entertained an engaged in lessons or he switches off, perhaps he's not self-motivated enough to manage next year when more may be expected of him in this area.
I've sat through a lot of dull and boring teaching in my time, made me do more work independently to get where I wanted to be. My parents would have blamed me if I was able to do a subject but not working because I didn't like the teacher.

Goblinchild · 01/12/2009 21:40

What did she do that was unacceptable? She sent a disruptive student out of the lesson for 15 minutes.
Did she belittle him, tell him he wasn't worth her time, say he was only going to fail anyway?
Give him a detention?
Manhandle him in any way?

Morosky · 01/12/2009 21:50

I think there can be more problems with maths than other subjects in terms of discipline. I have seen this in every school I have worked in. Some kids just think they can't do it and turn off, it is a difficult subject to "sex up" and it can mean practising the same thing again and again.

I suspect this may be part of the reason that your son is playing up in lessons.

Also you say yourself that he is targetted an E so he clearly has problems in maths. Perhaps he is playing up to cover the fact that he is struggling. It does not excuse it but perhaps helps you to understand.

You say he is predicted a B in geography, do you mean his target is a B or he is predicted a B. Because he is able in most subjects but really struggles in maths again this could be the cause of his struggles.

There are crap teachers out there but in my experience there are more naughty boys in maths lessons than crap teachers. I would actually make an appointment to go in and see his teacher but make it clear you are supporting her.

It also needs to be made clear to your son that if he disrupts a core lesson like maths he may have to go on early study leave which is the last thing he needs.

CertainAge · 01/12/2009 21:59

Very wise words, Morosky

Morosky · 01/12/2009 22:03

I have my moments

CertainAge · 01/12/2009 22:04

and thank you for letting us share them with you

cory · 02/12/2009 07:04

I am sorry but I really do not think you are helping him with the attitude that if he is not entertained and amused, it is somebody else's fault.

He is 16 years old: in 2 years time he will be an adult and have to take his life into his own hands. When he gets a job, his boss is not going to be interested in whether he feels engaged or not; he's going to want to see that the job gets done.

I understand that it must be very worrying to have an immature 16yo, but you don't have to encourage this attitude.

Besides, you both need to think about the practicalities. Even if the teacher is poor at presenting her subject (which we don't know- your friend may have a personal grudge), then blaming her (however justly) isn't suddenly going to make her change and he still needs those grades.

So he needs to think about what else he can do to improve his grades. Spotless behaviour clearly is a start, but also trying to work more with the subject at home. There are plenty of online resources he could access for a start. And if you can afford it, a tutor might also help; somebody who can engage with him as an individual without having to waste time on crowd control.

Original poster
ilovepiccolina · 02/12/2009 17:03

Thanks for all your comments, peeps. I do appreciate them and will spend some time going through and thinking about what you've said. (This reminds me of school reports!!)

She hasn't rung

I had another chat with DS. He said that at he time, everyone was working, heads down. He 'wanted a little break' so he put his head on the desk briefly. She shouted 'Right, get out, now. You're disrupting the class' and he was amazed to find that she was talking to him. He says that no-one would have noticed him. He feels it was unjustified on this one occasion, but agrees he's been out of order in the past.

I will look out his last report & see what she's said...

OP posts:
frogs · 02/12/2009 17:11

At 16 he's old enough to know that Maths lessons are for working, not for 'having a little break' and putting his head on the table.

If it was my child I'd be bollocking him from here to kingdom come, and then be talking with the teacher about agreeing a joint approach to him keeping his arse in gear. And tbh I'd probably get him a private maths tutor as well, to make sure all the gaps in his knowledge were filled before the GCSE.

It is very hard for even excellent schools to recruit good maths teachers, for the straightforward reason that mathematicians can earn more money for less hassle doing jobs that don't involve dealing with arsey 16yo. Go figure.

roisin · 02/12/2009 18:09

Great post Frogs! I agree completely.