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Secondary education

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Original poster

OXBRIDGE again....DS head of sixth form 'advice' today grrrrr

125 replies

RiaParkinson · 27/01/2009 20:49

DS is hoping to do medicine

Today the head of sixth form called all the boys hoping to do medicine to a meeting. He asked them all where they were hoping to go and then with much tut tutting - told them to have a rethink

The schools head boy has this year received NO OFFERS and the teacher is 'warning' them off the top universities

DS said the teacher said look 'further down the list' ...

DD (14) was in the room when ds recounted this tale to me and she said ' I see - so basically what MR Soandso is saying is 'Aim Low'

I agree with dd

How would you feel ?

My gut reaction is to ring the school - but is it irrelevant what this bloke says???

Or should ds be heeding his advice- despite misgivings?

OP posts:
Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 00:06

Senua that is REALLY good advice i thank you

OP posts:
senua · 28/01/2009 08:15

I hope that he does try for Oxbridge: you've got to give it a go, haven't you. As long as he remembers that an awful lot of very good people don't get in so it's no shame on him if he doesn't make it.

bagsforlife · 28/01/2009 08:34

It's quite common to get only 1 offer out of the 5 applied to for medicine. St Georges Med school in London seems to be a popular one to go for, plus Sheffield.

Swedes · 28/01/2009 11:39

Email for Miss Parkinson

BlameItOnTheBogey · 28/01/2009 11:45

Just wanted to say that I remember being told by a teacher to set my sight lower than Oxbridge. I didn't have much confidence and so applied elsewhere. I regret it to this day. I now know that I am bright and would have stood a chance. I hated the university I ended up at and always felt that I'd settled for second best.

So what if he applies and doesn't get in? At least then he'll know that he gave it a shot. Provided he also applies to other places that aren't so competitive (in order to have options) then I don't see why he shouldn't apply.

Seriously, I'm in my mid thirties and very successful and I still haven't got over this (and seriously consider going back to uni one day just to follow this dream).

lazymumofteenagesons · 28/01/2009 12:23

With 5 choices allowed I can't see the problem with him applying to oxbridge. He will always regret it if he doesn't give it a go. I don't think the unis see your other choices now and I don't think they have to be in any order.
Are his GCSE grades top notch otherwise I believe they won't look any further.
Regarding their headboy not getting any offers, this is odd indeed. Even though every school has its glitches, thay shouldn't be giving up on encouraging high aspirations.

snorkle · 28/01/2009 14:02

Medicine is a bit of a lottery as it's so very competitive. I think if it's definitely what you want to do using two choices on where you'd most like to go and the other two on slightly easier options (but where you'd still be happy to go) is quite good advice.

Another thought is to plan ahead what to do if you don't get an offer. I think if you reapply the following year it shows determination & you are more likely to get an offer (assuming you've done something useful & relevent with your gap year and achieved the grades). If that is your plan from the outset, then maybe you can be more ambitious in your choices the first time around.

Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 20:44

blameitonthebogey thanks for that insight - i do hope you DO follow your dream

lazymum - i think he only gets 4 choices

snorkle NOOOO please dont say that!

OP posts:
cremeeggs · 28/01/2009 22:01

I echo what others have said about the variables involved in Oxbridge entrance and that it's worth giving it a go anyway. I went to Oxford, was totally coached by the school in terms of which college to apply to based on the subject I was studying (not medicine) and where they'd got girls in previously for this subject. I got myself noticed at the college open day by chatting to the relevant tutors (and I'm naturally shy but this part seemed easy). For me this was a pre-interview as the same tutors interviewed me after the exam (in those days there was an exam just before Christmas) and said they remembered me from the open day...I think it showed enthusiasm and commitment and certainly didn't do me any harm. I'm not particularly brainy, just reasonably academic and hard-working and I loved the subject so that probably came through even at 17! I also remember that girls at school who applied to colleges the school had no particular history with and hadn't recommended didn't get in although objectively I know they were brighter than me. It's all about knowing the system and playing it and getting your face known!! ps. another Oxford college I'd seen at open day and put second also made it clear they'd have accepted me if the first one didn't because of the chat I had with the tutor on the open day!! It all counts. Good luck to your DS!

Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 22:06

Oh cremeeggs thanks so much for that

the problem is we do not 'know' the system

his school has 'links' with a colllege but am am unsure what this means

he has NO IDEA which colleges to look at etc

this is a very steep learning curve - wondering if this is where the Independants earn their dosh!!!!

OP posts:
Milliways · 28/01/2009 22:11

DOn't worry too much about "contacts" Ria (even though they deffo DO help).

DD knew no-one - we didn't go to ANY uni & she is the only one from her school this year to get an offer. Her winning points were outstanding academic results and a total passion for the subject (with proven extra curricular related acivities - own exchange trips, joining adult evening classes etc)

Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 22:14

phew milliways I do start to stress!

OP posts:
Milliways · 28/01/2009 22:17

You might find this interesting - shows differences in places available at Cambridge colleges. Must be a similar Oxford site?

Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 22:23

ooh thanks

ds has his work cut out!

OP posts:
camdoc · 28/01/2009 23:12

yes i agree about contacts - i knew no one and went to standard non selective state school, as did a lot of my friends there

if it is still the same - nottingham won't give an offer in you've applied to cambridge/oxford (they like to be first choice!)

camdoc · 28/01/2009 23:15

what type of school is he at ria?

Lilymaid · 28/01/2009 23:17

There aren't any "first" choices now - all choices given equal ranking and possibly the universities can't see where else the applicant has chosen. Some Russell Group university departments will hold back on offers until after end of January when all Oxbridge offers have been sorted. DS and his friend both got into Nottingham (2005) despite being "rejected" by Cambridge.

snorkle · 28/01/2009 23:17

They can't see who else you've applied to now (those fields are blanked out in their copy I understand). Although they can make certain deductions from the timing of your application as to whether you've applied to Oxbridge, and as the choices are listed alphabetically and they can see their absolute position if a choice of yours is near the beginning or end of the alphabet and NOT at the top or bottom of the list they may guess that you've also applied to Aston or York or somesuch.

Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 23:31

camdoc selective grammar (state) so the worstof all wprlds ?

snorkle - i cant believe they have time to do that - do you think they care?

OP posts:
snorkle · 28/01/2009 23:38

No, I don't think they do. If an application is early they can only guess you've applied to Oxbridge & the rest is of limited use. A lecturer at Birmingham did tell me they could tell if applicants had applied to Aston - the only earlier in the alphabet place offering the same course (but of course an applicant may have applied for different courses, but you can usually tell that from the personal statement) but that that info was of no use to them at all!

Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 23:40

gosh!! it is a minefield!

OP posts:
Original poster
RiaParkinson · 28/01/2009 23:41

thanks so much for your help! wish i was 'in the know'

OP posts:
snorkle · 28/01/2009 23:48

That's just based on what a friend told me several years ago now - I'm not really 'in the know'. The system may well have changed again - the alphabetical thing at least, I doubt they'd do anything about the timing issue.

By the way, I doubt that a state grammar really is the worst of all worlds - I suspect it's a case of the grass appearing greener & all that. Your son is bright and sounds quite determined so I should think he has a good chance of success - best of luck to him whatever he chooses.

TwentiethCenturyHeffa · 29/01/2009 08:25

Lots of people have mentioned choosing your college carefully and I would agree with that. We went on an open day to Cambridge and saw loads of the colleges - most of them felt quite imposing and I didn't really fancy my chances with any of them. Then we visited one of the newer colleges (that doesn't get many direct applications) and I just loved it immediately; sorry to sound corny, but it felt like home. I applied there and was lucky enough to get in. I doubt that I'd have had much success at one of the more famous colleges, since my A-levels weren't outstanding.

People get put off some colleges because they're less well-known, or further out of town but the town is tiny anyway so that's not really an issue and the course is the same whichever college you're at.

Swedes · 29/01/2009 09:58

Ria - I think the trick is actually getting your son to apply as it sounds as though his school far from encouraging.

This table shows that grammar schools have the best applicant to offer success rate of all the types of school. But to tap into that he must apply

It is obvious to admissions tutors that you have applied to either Oxford or Cambridge because their applications have to be in early and the normal UCAS applications are not even open at that stage.

Bristol used to be a favourite choice for those who failed to get a place at either Ox or Camb, but I've heard that Bristol now discriminate against independently educated pupils. So son feels Bristol would be a waste of one of his four choices.

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