EPQ - are they worth it?

[Smartiepants79]

Does anyone have any insight as to how useful doing an EPQ might be?
For various reasons I am questioning whether doing this is going to be a good use of my DDs time. Her school push them quite hard. All students are expected to have a go and some lesson time is being given over to it. She has basically been told that she has to work on it for a set period of time but can then not finish/submit it if she doesn’t want to.
A good one can presumably be helpful but what happens if it ends up being rubbish? Does it count against you?
I feel she might be better using her time improving her actual a-level grades. She has medical challenges that mean it’s going to be hard work and I wonder if this is a waste of time.
Any experience or advice??

They can be really useful as they will give her the opportunity to focus on an area of interest ideally related to a subject she is studying or planning to study at uni or a future career. It will help her develop transferable skills which she can discuss in uni or apprenticeship applications. Some universities give reduced offers eg if she achieves a grade A or above. They are hard work but in my experience are really valuable.

They are excellent, but only if it doesn’t drag her other subjects down

Thanks, I just really worry that the time given to it will be a detriment to her actual a-levels.
Her medical issues mean that everything is just a bit harder for her than for many and work like this takes her much longer. GCSE were a struggle although she did well in the end.

Mine loved doing EPQ but it was very time consuming! She was so devoted to making it the best EPQ in the history of EPQs that nothing else was moving along. Thanks to ADHD! In the end sense prevailed and she dropped it with the blessings of her teacher who was sympathetic. So much time wasted and nothing to show in the end.
unless the child is good at time management and knows when to stop - I think it’s a bit of a rabbit hole that they can get lost in.

There’s a few reasons for doing one, and for not. Some universities will lower their offer by a grade if the applicant achieves an A for their EPQ. It also gives an opportunity to research an interest in a different way than in the classroom, so can enhance their knowledge and can be referred to in their PS. It’s also an opportunity learn something new - my DD published a magazine, asking for senior school students to contribute. This was outside her degree ambitions but she just wanted to do it because she was interested and there was no other student led publication.
The argument for not doing it is it does take a lot of time and if it takes away their concentration from their A levels then probably should not be attempted. Getting optimal grades is better than slipping a grade or two for the sake of an EPQ, which some universities don’t care about anyway.
My DD’s school was also very keen everyone do one, but I think a good third never completed it.
In my DD’s case I don’t think it counted towards her university applications, especially as it wasn’t directly relevant, but she has absolutely no regrets having done it.

Mine didn't have anything she was keen to do as an EPQ, so she did grade 8 piano instead.

In terms of university applications, it would have made no difference to her for the courses she was applying for. However when completing applications for internships, it would have helped with answering some of the questions (eg describe a time when you had a task with a long deadline and had to plan your time). I'm wondering whether we should have thought beyond UCAS!

My dcs got reduced uni offers because of their EPQs. They also learned to code, which was super helpful for their maths degrees.

Ds got a Cambridge offer and part of it was to pass EPQ. Dd didn’t do one and went to a prestigious uni.

See, we’re not even sure that university will be right for her and I’m almost certain she won’t be applying to go straight away. She is a hard working, lovely kid with many talents but she is not the kind of child to expect to go to the most prestigious university on top grades. She is capable of a set of Bs if she does well. I’m jut not convinced it is a good use of her time!

Ds regretted doing his EPQ as it was so time consuming. His school didn’t really push them to do them preferring them to aim at higher a level grades instead, but as Ds had already completed a project in his own time a teacher thought he might as well convert it into an EPQ. He found it a lot of extra work and he didn’t actually need the extra points anyway. So it isn’t useful for every circumstance.

My DD’s did Core Maths rather than EPQ which was v helpful - covers things like mortgages/loans and practical maths. Is that an option?

One DD had a reduced offer for getting an A. For the other Uni it meant nothing in terms of offer grades

An EPQ is generally a positive thing in terms of the skills a student develops and a chance to pursue a non curriculum interest.

Good time management and planning prevents it being a burden and dragging down other subjects - if lesson time is being allocated that would be a help with that.

DD got an A* for her EPQ and she had reduced offers for uni. It also proved massively helpful in gaining an internship this summer, as it was in a related field.

My ds didn’t do it. We decided it was better for him to just focus on getting decent grades in his 3 main subjects.

Not for dd its wasn’t. She gave it up after a few months. She went on to get a first in law at Russell group uni. None of the unis she applied to were interested in the epq. Most of her friends that did finish it said they wish they hadn’t bothered. She went to a super selective grammar.

We didn't really debate doing the EPQ since my daughter’s sixth form practically required it, and she’s so glad she did.
Beyond getting her a lowered offer from York, it was a massive help across all her uni applications. Being able to talk about her project showed real passion and academic depth, which meant she wrote a strong personal statement in half the time it took her friends who didn't do one. Now that she’s actually at uni, it’s clear how much those independent research skills have set her up for her degree.
My biggest tip would be to make sure they pick a question they genuinely care about—it makes the whole process so much easier and completely worth it!

I don’t think they are (in fact we actively discouraged DC4 from doing one).

However, DS got a scholarship (£1K a year for the first three years of his medical degree) off the back of his EPQ A star. He did have to explain why he’d chosen that particular university on the application, and decided not to say that it was the only med school that had offered him a place!

They are imo of limited use for university applications. Better to focus the time on getting a better grade if that's the sole concern.

They have other benefits however. They are better preparation for university level study than a levels are. They allow a young person to pursue a topic of interest to them, which is good for personal development and can help them figure out what they are good at and interested in - so can be good for those who aren't sure what they want to do. They develop a different set of skills from a levels so can be a good selling point for those wanting employment or an apprenticeship after uni.

I wouldn't particularly recommend them for high achievers who know what they want to do and are not going to struggle at uni (although this cohort often do them, and do them very well). From what you've said about your daughter it actually sounds to me like she could get quite a lot out of it.

I taught EPQ for 8 years and was subject lead for 4.

EPQs are brilliant for teaching the skills that will set young people up for university: researching, sifting information, referencing, extended writing, time management, presenting their findings etc. They can be great as a "try before you buy" option for university courses which do not correlate exactly with A levels. As others have said, an A or A star grade in EPQ can lower offers from some institutions. Even where this is not done formally, on results day every year, we had students getting into their first choice institution having missed their A level grade(s) because they had an A or A star in EPQ. Last summer that included a very niche artefact which was connected to a very niche course at Cambridge. The student dropped 2 grades so their original college said no. However, another college took them because of the A star in a related EPQ. A couple of years ago, a kid dropped EPQ in y13, but following disastrous mock results, decided to pick it up and finish it. They got a B and somehow scraped into the course of their dreams.

However, if your student is ambivalent about their question or title, not very motivated or struggling with A levels, it might be better to drop it.

The key takeaway from my students, particularly after they have gone onto Higher Education courses is that they really appreciated the skills being taught in bite-sized chunks by EPQ supervisors, and this stood them in great stead when they started their university work.

DC1 did one one. It provided very useful material to make their UCAS application stand out. I would say if you want to apply for something very competitive, you should do something relevant to that and it is a good way to make your application stand out.

Ds did an EPQ - on history despite being a STEM student. Allowed him to follow an interest outside the A levels he'd chosen and really broadened his sixth form experience.

He went to Bath so his offer did include the EPQ - think it was Astar AA or AAA with A in EPQ.

DD didn't do an EPQ - she would have found the extra workload too much. Horses for courses.