What I wish I'd known about the 11+ at the start of Year 5

[ThisMellowGreyLion]

We've just been through this for my daughter. The thing I wish I'd known at the start of Year 5: the 11+ bis a extremely hard journey that begins in the spring and summer, months before the 31 Oct form. Start with the schools that suit your child, and the rest follows.

It is a horrible process. We are just at the start of it and I’m wondering if it is too late to move county!

I disagree that it has to be that way. You can just send them in for the test. If they pass, they’ll find themselves right at home at a Grammar school. Extensive coaching could get them in but they might find it a struggle to keep up for 5+ years.

It’s really important to find out if they have a chance of passing. It varies depending on where you live, some are easier to get into than others. There’s no point putting a child through the stress of preparing for an exam they don’t have a hope in hell of passing. I also don’t think it’s fair to make them sit one without practice. The 11+ is miles harder than SATS and would come as one hell of a shock (and a big knock to the confidence) if you’re not expecting it.
I think it’s really important to weigh up the pros and cons, and to involve the child in the decision. If they really want to do it and they have a chance of passing, then explain to them that it’s hard work. And make sure they know that both options are fine, life won’t end if they don’t pass the 11+.

The whole point of 11+ is to label the majority of youngsters as failures by including questions not covered by the national curriculum. Only those wealthy enough to pay for private education can give their children an unfair advantage.

That's not true at all. I passed the 11+ and I am not from a wealthy background.

My parents bought me one revision guide to look at verbal reasoning and go through what it was.

My year 6 teacher (state school) recommended it, and gave us a couple of past papers to try at home. You don't have to be wealthy for that, it's under £10.

We did a few questions out of the book at home for a few months before the exam. That's all. No tutor, no private school.

Verbal/ non verbal reasoning are important because they cover a type of thinking that yes, isn't covered by the national curriculum (I don't see how it really can be because it's not a subject, it's more about how you think and problem solve) - but are still really important for the academic demands of a grammar school.

Of course private paid tutoring can help prepare kids, but at the end of the day, if a child is not academic and doesn't think in that way then no amount of expensive tutoring is going to make them become someone they are not. I had quite a few friends who had tutors who didn't pass.

You absolutely could not do this in London. It is hugely unfair but if you don’t tutor and intensely you won’t achieve.

It is a shame in some ways that 11+ is used both for state grammar and for private secondary, as it’s not always clear which an OP means.

For multiple choice VR/NVR, of course, the more that you practice and get tips and tricks, the better you will do. Whether you discover those for yourself, with a tutor or with your parents. Working fast, accurately, checking your work, moving on if you get stuck etc - these all come with practice and guidance.

Aren’t they all different versions though? Many NI pupils will sit the state grammar test in two weeks, run by GL, but it’s not the same test as eg Kent or a London private school.

This is laughably bizarre - do you know how much 11+ has changed in the last 5 years alone? The test you’d have taken in, what, 2005(?) would be a breeze for most students, I bet you’d struggle with the papers for the super selectives now as an adult.

If your child is sitting a test they need to have revised. I tutored my dc for the 11+ because what they needed to know was not taught to them at school or to the level they needed to be at.
I wouldn’t walk into an exam without having revised so why would I expect my children to?

And I don’t agree when people say tutored children will struggle once they are at the school, I don’t think you can tutor a child beyond their capability, they are tutored to reach their potential.
If they receive tutoring and do not pass the test then they are not capable of level needed for the test nor the school. Tutoring won’t change that. If they do pass the obviously they are capable of learning to that level and will continue to do so through their school years.

This isn't true - you don't have to be wealthy and/or tutor. My son passed the Sutton 11+ with no outside tutoring, and we did minimal work at home, in comparison to others in same position. He is very naturally gifted at maths, so I was pretty sure he would pass, and this is for super selectives. But they have to want to do it, and, in our case, you have to be relatively sure they will pass high enough to be offered a spot. I have a younger son and I am currently trying to work out if he could do it too. The competition is intense and you have to be sure your child is resilient enough for it. He is coping fine in the school after the first half term in year 7

I didn’t really put much thought into the whole process to be honest and we’ve just been through it. I didn’t pass it and went on to have a good career so I’m not quite sure how it has become so competitive. I must admit I was very naive to how many children are specifically tutored to pass it and I felt I may have set my son up for failure (not that I would ever think of it that way). All we did to prep for it was some verbal and non verbal reasoning practice books over the summer holidays. He passed it and is now set to attend grammar school which he is thrilled about. I’m so proud of him for just going in there and doing it with no fuss. But I would have been just as proud of him whatever school he ended up in. The pressure put on some of these young people is immense and the amount of people who are prepared to move their whole lives just based on one test is nuts to me.

It’s dominated by South Asian families who seem to be more motivated and happy to put pressure on their kids to do well, and they do get the results and passes. I’m not sure why other nationalities don’t seem to do what it takes to enter and do well in the tests. It does make me think that as the schools do not have a mixed/diverse enough cohort then they don’t truly have the most academically able group of kids from the local area.

Well all I can say is that the vast majority of kids in London entered for these exams are pretty bright naturally - they are probably all pretty high achievers and most of them heavily tutored, some of them to the point they are basically doing double school. Plus holiday schools.
I am going to try to do it with two sessions of tutoring a week, reading plus some intense past paper revision in the new year but that really doesn't feel like it is enough. I think if we're lucky we might get in via a waiting list to a slightly less sought after option

Not true.

dd passed the 11+ with no coaching/tutoring.

i bought some exam papers and she did those.

It was the right school for her.

My local grammar schools are oversubscribed by about 1.5 to 1. I assume that's just the children who have passed. IE got 121 or more. So what happens to the children who have passed their 11 plus but don't get a place? These aren't super selectives. It does mean that housing round our way sells even in the current climate. Many families want to get in a grammar school catchment area.

I agree with others about tutoring. If you wanted your child to go to a specialist sporting academy/youth team etc you wouldn’t just let them stay at home all week and rely on an hour of PE at school to get them in. You’d make sure they were training and practising in their spare time to give them the best chance. Grammar schools are the intellectual equivalent, and by not tutoring you are putting your child at a huge disadvantage, because every one else is! Of course there are some children who will just fly in with no effort, but they are in the tiniest minority.

It’s not compulsory? My daughter didn’t take it , the right decision for her.

Don’t listen to people who say don’t tutor! Research individual schools you are interested in, understand what they focus on and tailor to that.

DC at v competitive London school. Paper involved multistep maths that’s not taught until GCSE. Once you’re in they try to unwind the mentality of 11+ as not healthy for children. Kids are all v naturally bright so would do well anywhere and real shame that the way to differentiate is to test kids so hard.

You can tell from this thread how much it depends on where you live! In some towns, there are two local schools and one is a grammar so it’s almost a 50/50 chance where they end up. Where I live, there are thousands of applicants for 180 places. And some schools are even harder to get into.
That means it’s impossible to advise because they’re not all the same.
It is possible to tutor your child yourself if you’re switched on though, I never paid anyone to help but had to work extremely hard myself to assess and teach to get my DC through it all.

I'm am 11 plus tutor. 8ts s horrible process.
Why do it? Those little 8 year old I feel sad for them. All Chinese and Asian jn our area.

Our county is fully selective and the decent schools are all state grammars. We don’t have the option of comprehensive schools and many of the upper schools/secondary modern schools are not that great. We don’t have many private options for boys either.

We’re not in an 11+ borough and I’m not British so didn’t know anything about the test. Once I discovered that it wasn’t curriculum based I bought my son a book and signed him up for Atom so he could get familiar with the question formats. No tutoring or coaching because I couldn’t afford it.

My son has always performed about two years ahead of his peers. But the questions were new so glad he did that bit of prep. He did very well and was successful.

There is so much negativity around the 11+. The truth is, every child and every family is different, so shallow debates about needing tutors, high costs, or difficulty levels don't make much sense. Personally, I believe the prep period should be kept relatively short. We started back in May year 5 with a strictly DIY approach, focusing on practice papers, and as we wrap up now, it feels like the ideal timeline. It’s been a fruitful experience. Beyond just academics, my DD has built up resilience and solid exam technique that will benefit her for the rest of her school years. Looking back at her seven years in primary school, spending half a year on the 11+ prepartion really isn't that long. It was definitely more intensive, but I really don't think it did any harm at all.