Set changes in year 7 - ds being moved down

[Spookyseason1313]

I’m wondering if anyone works in a secondary school or has been in this situation.

Ds started year 7 in September. He was initially placed in top set. I was told that this was based on SATS results. He scored 106 in all subjects so a strong pass.

He’s just had his first lot of assessments back from school and had parents evening. He’s securing in most subjects but there are a few where he is working towards, however at parents evening his teachers said that this is completely normal at this stage in the year and that he’s doing really well.

However, from next half term he’s being moved down to what I think must be middle set.
This info is wasn’t given at parents evening but there are new timetables given out. So there was no opportunity to discuss it with his teachers. All his teachers said he’s golden and is doing great.

I’m really worried because he’s very happy in the class he’s in. The new class he’s going into has got a reputation for being a bit noisy and boisterous.

The way the school does it is that there is one set for all subjects. So they don’t group them separately for Maths and English. So for example ds is much better at one than the other but there is no difference in the sets.

I can only speak about our school but usually top set is for those who got 111 and above in sats, then dc can move up and down depending on how they do in assessments. Sats are a poor indicator in my experience. Dd3 moved down a set despite being “fine” in the set she was in but she was bottom group of top set and teacher decided confidence was her issue in maths so top of second set would be much better for her.

Adjustments of sets (or really you have streams) is normal after a settling in period. I'm surprised 106 would make it to a top set in the first place, though I guess it depends on size of year group. They may well be adjusting some of the more disruptive pupils out of the other set to spread them out anyway.

Secondary schools tend to be very upbeat about all pupils regardless of ability if they are trying their best, at least that has been my personal experience.

You just go with it. There doesn't appear to be any obvious mistake.

How many sets? 106 seems low for a top set unless there is a very small number and wide ability bands.

I agree that streaming is not great for children with spiky profiles (I have one too) but the school is unlikely to change their policy on this, so you might need to look at moving schools if it's going to have huge impact.

This is often a shock to parents more than kids. Secondary often has kids from other schools joining and whereas yours may have been a big fish in a small pond primary they find they a small fish in a big pond secondary Further some primaries coach and coach kids to get SATS scores whereas others don't. So the first term is often the time when things level out.

The reality it is better to be in the correct set working at your level than struggling to keep up. For science gcses my son was moved down a set even though he got slightly better exam results than some peers. It was explained if he didn't understand he never spoke up to ask. In the lower set if he didn't understand then it was likely someone else wouldn't either and would ask. He ended up with 998 for his science gcses.

I do agree I was surprised initially that he was placed in top set with 106, but that’s where they put him 🤷‍♀️ the school is in a very deprived area so possibly the SATS results of the entire cohort weren’t great, I don’t know.

How many sets are there? I would expect top set to have achieved greater depth in their SATs. Oldest DC moved between set one, two and 3 (there were 4 sets) in KS3 before they settled in set 1 in Y10.

OP, I think it's normal to feel a bit upset about this, but it's just one of those things really. Hopefully he'll be able to move back up if he works hard and does well.

There are 7 sets classes and I think within that there are 3 sets. And then one for children with additional needs.

Please dont worry. On MN it can seem like everone's child is in 'top set'. My DD has had the experience of being moved down & isnt always in top set for everything. She wasnt happy about being moved down for 1 subject in Year 9 (similar issues to you mention - moving away from friends & potentially more disruption). There was more disruption, but she did have/make friends in that set. My line was if you're unhappy being placed there you need to work hard, get better results & you might be moved up. She did and was moved. She wasnt happy at the time, but it wasn't a disaster.

You can work hard & be doing okay/well but still not be top set. Sets should be flexible & if they are kids will move down as well as up.

Can you expand, that isn't clear.

Ugh this is streaming not setting and I am not a fan @Spookyseason1313

Setting for maths is standard even from year 7 IME but for sure a DC could be excellent at maths and not great at English (or vice versa) which is why streaming is not a good plan IMHO. Not much you can do about it tho obvs.

Don't worry though at this stage. encourage him to get his head down and work hard at any weak areas (maybe ask teachers what they would be). As others say, some adjustment is fairly usual.

Tell him not to worry about the noisy group – if there are changes throughout it may be different and anyway he needs to do the right thing and not listen to others. That's more than possible. I also agree with others that those marks are not super high anyway, so would be surprised if they were among the best 30. Higher in the lower set is often better than struggling in the higher set.

Our school shifts kids around twice per year based on the 2x set of exams they perform so your child might get moved back up again in a few months time.

Also 106 is only just above average. My child got 120 in their math SATS and is currently performing in the middle of the top set in their current class.

We were also told that SATs are only one factor in setting. Being greater depth doesnt guarantee 'top set' nor does expected standard preclude it. They do consider SATs but also look at tbe secondary school assessments & exams. Different subjects handle things differently, but there is definite flexibility & movement. It is normal for kids to be unsettled/upset by moves but you have to be pragmatic & positive. Secondary is a long road.

Agree with @clary though - streams where it is the same group for multiple subject arent great for lots of reasons.

Tbf it sounds like a reasonable move. I would expect children in top sets to have scored closer to 110+ in their SATs.

My ds11 is also in y7, he got lower scores on SATs, 100/103/103. His secondary doesn’t stream by ability until y9 but if they did I would expect ds to be put in the middle/maybe slightly lower set.

Our school had (what I thought) odd pairings for some sets. But most were set individually. My DD for example was top set sciences and English but third set for Maths - her Achilles heel (she got 8 in GCSE physics but 6 in Maths). My son worked hard to get in to top set of Latin but couldn’t sustain the work required and moved down. There was a bit of movement and some parents were quite vocal in objecting if their child was moved down. This didn’t help the child. Better to be towards the top of a lower set than the bottom of a higher one.
But having all subjects the same set seems counterproductive!

I didn’t know it was called streaming.

The school do it this way until year 9 I believe, and then they put them into sets.

No, he didn’t tell me that. I’ve heard it from a few people including other parents and people who work at the school.

But even if it was ds, I wouldn’t dismiss the feelings of a child. They are capable of noticing badly behaved/disruptive children and not wanting to be with some of them.

3 levels. Eg 3 top set classes, 3 middle, 1 lower

Some classes do have a reputation for being more noisy than others & kids rightly or wrongly do speak about it. Behaviour does differ in different groups. It isnt always that lower sets are more noisy/disruptive. DD's Y7 mixed ability form was 'lively' and moves were made in Y8 to try to resolve some of the personality clashes. With ability groupings that flexibility can be more limited.

What is your point?

Yes I know staff who work at the school and I know a lot of the other parents and children.

My DC started off in set 1 (top) for English and over the next 3 years ended up in set 4.We’re in Scotland so not sure how setting compares to English schools as kids here don’t sit SATs. Anyway, they ended up achieving the top band in their higher English exam. Being in a lower set doesn’t always mean a kid is expected to get a lower grade. There were a lot of extremely bright kids at DC’s school.