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At wit's end with DD's behaviour and poor school performance

8 replies

IAmAllOutOfIdeas · Today 13:36

DD is a month into yr 8 at our local state secondary. It's got a good OFSTED rating and an outstanding sixth form, but in any case, even if it was in special measures, it's our only option for miles.

Since DD started there, her performance at school has nosedived. She scored the highest in her year on her SATS tests in yr 6 and was well above the national average. By any measurement she is bright. Over the summer holidays she's taught herself a whole new language that has a non-latin alphabet (not one that's taught in schools, just one that she likes). She's an incredibly talented artist and draws constantly, she also taught herself how to do animation. She used to read voraciously and write long stories with amazing, complex vocabulary. She was on course to really hit the ground running in yr 7 but somewhere along the line it all went pear-shaped.

She's not unhappy there at all - far from it. The problem is that she really likes the social aspect of it far too much. She's always in trouble for constant talking and gossiping in class. The teachers will move her away from her friends, but because she's such a social butterfly, she just starts talking to whomever she ends up sitting next to. She's very charismatic and can charm people easily (although not her teachers it would seem! She's chosen to do battle with them instead). She's become very interested in her makeup and hair, having previously not cared about any of that stuff. She's had at least one detention per week since she started because of uniform violations - tie is too short, skirt is too short, not wearing blazer, etc. Basic, stupid stuff that is so easy for her to remedy but she persists on pushing the boundaries and has now made enemies of nearly all her teachers (except her art teacher, who loves her).

The problem is that she knows she's clever so she has become complacent and arrogant. She has lost all respect for, and trust in, the teachers and the relationship has completely broken down. She's bored out of her mind there and basically just turns up and does what she wants. She's stopped bothering with homework and does the bare minimum. If the teachers remonstrate with her, she argues back and she doesn't care about detentions at all. They're no deterrent to her.

I am at a loss. She already has very limited access to her phone and ipad anyway - she's not on any of the apps, we've never allowed them. She likes to go and meet her friends locally and go to Costa and buy makeup at Superdrug, which we have put a stop to until we see an improvement in all the nonsense at school. But I feel conflicted about that because I do like the fact that she goes out into the real world and has proper real life interactions with people, rather than spending all her time in her room. But other than that, there aren't many other sanctions we can impose - unless I'm missing something?

She does three extra curricular sports activities a week that DH and I insist on even though she moans constantly and says she hates them and wants to stop.

She's not a bad kid and she's not unhappy. She just doesn't seem to care about school at all and has no fear of the consequences. I'm not sure what I can do to address it.

We live in an affluent area but unfortunately don't have the income to keep up. In terms of school choice, there is DD's state secondary and then an abundance of eye wateringly expensive private schools. I wish I could send her to one of those as I think she'd be pushed a bit harder. We can't move as I have a local business here and my other DC are in sports teams playing for the county and it would be a real impact on them to take them away from that when they are excelling.

I'm out of ideas! How do I tame DD? My other DC aren't like this, only her!

OP posts:
ShadesOfPemberley · Today 13:43

I have a friend in your exact position and she despairs too. What I would say is that it might not be worth your energy worrying about switching schools, my friend has actually moved her DD and the same problem continues. So don’t beat yourself up about not being able to move her. I’m afraid I don’t have advice really about how to manage your DD’s actual behaviour!!! What has helped a teeny bit with my friend’s DD is giving her a BIT more freedom as she was pushing against their boundaries all the time. But tbf it sounds like you’ve given her freedoms that my friend hadn’t (they were VERY strict and it was backfiring) so might not actually be helpful to you!!

so really just saying don’t be too worried about the school, I don’t honestly know if that is the key factor. Obviously only you know your DD!! They do get way more into the makeup stuff around this age, don’t think there’s any way to avoid that part. But the socialising at the total expense of schoolwork is a tricky one to navigate. X

WaneyEdge · Today 13:47

Why do you ‘insist’ she does three extra curricular activities if she’s telling you she doesn’t want to?

SnappyPenguin · Today 13:49

Tell her being smart doesn't excuse bad manners. I would ground her till you see an improvement.

espresso14 · Today 13:57

No advice, but sympathy. On the plus side, your DD did fantastic things in the summer, and she does at least still go to her sports, my DD would refuse to get in the car and scream for hours if she didn't want to do it. I understand why you make her do things, because the alternative is pretty unhealthy.

Year 8 seems to be the year of no motivation in our house too, and life ambition seems to be limited to ballet flats and a handbag. Like you, we are strict on phone and limited spending money on rubbish. It is incredibly sad and frustrating that girls who seem to have no ambition or drive, despite all the opportunity available to them.

We are hoping to try and get her to identify some short term goals to aim for. Currently there is working for a school trip she wants to go on (although I'm fairly sure she only wants to go because she thinks she'll get to be on her phone all the way there and back, and thinks there will be shopping trips). Exams and Career are too far off as goals. We are fighting the tide of an extremely materialistic and superficial culture amongst girls, it is very irritating.

clary · Today 14:37

@IAmAllOutOfIdeas there are clearly some issues, and a few things stand out to me in your post.

Firstly, her teachers do not hate her. I am sure you know this, and the hate is just what she is saying. They would like her to behave. They can see (from primary reports and the work she does) that she is able. Her behaviour thus is frustrating. But they don’t hate her, I promise. Even the most challenging student never inspired hatred in me, even when I really wished they were not in the school (which applied to about three students in my teaching years) bc of the damage they caused.

Secondly – she is bored? Really? I wonder if that is true. If she is bored then that suggests the work is too easy; but that seems unlikely as I imagine she is in, for example a high set for maths based on her ability; she is learning an MFL which will be new and challenging; detailed science concepts, complex computing, challenging English texts – all these will be in front of her. If she is in fact doing the bare minimum, is it that she is daunted by the work and worries she may not do well? That’s not unusual IME with students who have previously excelled. What does she say about it?

Finally the sporting hobbies that she hates – why do you insist she must continue? Has she given them a good go and decided she no longer enjoys them? It’s OK for a YP to drop hobbies. It’s a good idea to do something outside school for sure – what might she enjoy instead? Guides/Scouts? Martial arts? Athletics? Drama club? Singing lessons? Every one of my 3 DC had things they liked, did for a while (like, a few years) and then dropped. It was fine. They all kept going with at least one or two activities until age 18, but they were the ones they chose to do.

I would have a discussion with her about some of this and see how she wants to go forward – obviously the current situation is not sustainable, for her or for you really. It's hard to take a long-term view when you are 12 or 13. You mention other DC - are they older? What did they end up doing? Is there an example there for her to follow?

IAmAllOutOfIdeas · Today 15:06

I've maybe overstated the hatred of the sporting activities.

She doesn't mind doing two of them because she sees her friends there. She moans about having to get ready and leave the house, but once she's there she actually doesn't mind it.

She also does a martial art, which is the main bone of contention. But DH and I are insistent on this because of the self defence aspect and also because, despite not liking it, she is actually pretty good at it and wins most of the time against her opponents.

Most importantly, doing these activities is good for her physical health and if she didn't do them, frankly, she would rot in her room and do naff all else.

We've had so many, many conversations about her behaviour. Being intelligent, obviously she can understand all the arguments and rationale for toeing the line at school. But she holds their strident adherence to rules in such contempt. (I haven't expressed this to DD, but I also find their obsession with uniform and skirt lengths in particular really weird and it seems to take up a huge about of the teachers' focus. SO many hours wasted in detentions because of two inches of knee showing - is it really worth it? I can understand why DD gets frustrated.)

One of her siblings is super sporty and just does that pretty much to the exclusion of all else. And loves it.

Her older sibling is not as naturally bright as DD but perhaps because of this, has an excellent work ethic and modelled this during recent A levels. They were revising for hours at the kitchen table and achieved good grades in the end. So she's seen what is required in terms of effort. DH and I both have multiple degrees between us, so we have quite a lot of emphasis on doing well academically. Although we are by no means pushy parents (DH and I both naturally tend towards laziness and have to keep ourselves in check!)

It's reassuring to hear of others' similar experiences.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · Today 15:39

Year 8 and year 9 are often the really tricky years at secondary, most teachers hate year 9 because they’re old enough to have settled in the school and teenage enough to only care about socialising and clothes and (sometimes) sports but not yet in the exam years where most of them buckle down and do some work.

teenagers gonna teenage whether they have phones or not.

suggestions:
sit with her and do homework with her or make her do it. Then reward for doing it.
sanctions rarely work on teens. Many teens just respond with anger and aggression (as she is doing at school).
focus on the key subjects - maths and English. Does she have anything she wants to study/a career as an adult? If so starting on work experience can be good (eg stables if work with animals, St John cadets if anything medical etc).
start talking about choices for what she wants to study.

SoftIce · Today 15:56

To me it sounds like she needs to be given more responsibility - ideally for something meaningful. I'll be honest: I can't think of anything, but I do think responsibility makes young people grow up at this stage. PP mentioned work experience or volunteering (especially regularly), that would be a good idea, if you can find anywhere that will take someone her age.

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