Project-based maths homework

[cwanne]

This term my children’s secondary school has switched to project-based homework for maths. They used to use an online homework system, and apparently too many children were just using AI to complete the questions. So this term they will do
6-week projects, which they will have to present to the class and answer questions about.

Has this happened to anyone else?

This sounds like a great idea so not sure what you are asking.

Sounds good.
I used to love my maths coursework.
We had to do all by hand and I absolutely adored making little booklets with coloured in pie charts or bar graphs etc.
I have big memories of my 3D design a box for tea project. One of the best things I did at school.
(this was GCSE level)

I am concerned about the lack of practice of individual skills which maths homework usually provides. Also, the quality of the projects my dc have been assigned, and the quantity of maths required, varies massively. Plus, I was just curious if this was a shift that a lot of other parents have experienced this term.

Projects tend to me much more memorable than lots of individual skills practice and will demonstrate a practical side to school maths that has in the past been completely missing. How many times have you heard adults saying that they never use what they were taught? The reason they don't think they use the skills they were taught is because they can't relate them to them in real life. Well-designed project work should pull the theory and real life examples together in a more useful way.

We need the whole curriculum to be re-designed for the modern world of computers. Most of us (and I include myself as an accountant in that) don't need to be able to do the actual calculations as we have tools to do that for us, but we do need to be able to apply the maths in our everyday lives.

My DD1 had 'project based' homework in y7. It was a disaster as there wasn't enough structure and she didn't have a clue how to go about it (turns out she has dyspraxia and poor executive functioning).
I think this kind of thing is great for some kids and a disaster for some others.

Hmmmm, but maths skills build on each other. To progress confidently to a topic such as calculus you need to be very secure on manipulating algebra. That comes with practice. You almost have to build up muscle memory, it has to be automatic, so that you can concentrate on the new thing that you are trying to learn.

My children are too young for this, but I agree, some basic skills need to be practiced.

Projects don’t replace that, they let the kids apply their skills and investigate a specific area more deeply. Projects are a great idea but if they are actually replacing practicing technical skills with projects they are essentially saying deal with the basics on your own, sink or swim. You need to practice to gain individual technical skills.

Have they said they will switch to doing more worksheets and practice questions during class?

If not I think that’s leaving the children adrift a little in learning and practising their foundational skills.

Can you push back on the idea a bit? There is always Kumon but that’s extra time and money and I think the kids need more rest time as well without doing all these extra activities.

I have followed up and apparently we will get more information next week. They have been told that they can still use the old maths homework website if they wish. But it puts the onus on the child or parent to be proactive. It lets down people who could have been good at maths who don’t have the support outside of school. Also, the quality of the projects varies massively between classes. My DS has a reasonable project which requires quite a lot of maths. My DD has a project which for several weeks doesn’t appear to require any maths at all. It’s a waste of her time.

@cwanne how can the project be "a waste of time"?
Surely she has to use some skills she has learned to do it?

As a maths teacher, this sounds like a bunch of crap. One of the major reasons that maths coursework was scrapped before any other coursework is that kids cannot work independently on anything mathematical for an extended period of time without significant support.

It doesn’t use any maths skills. That is time that should be for her maths homework. She gets quite a lot of homework and does lots of after school activities. It is frustrating to me that she is spending time on a project that doesn’t teach her any maths and uses basic research skills she practises in a lot other subjects. At least her DS has to do maths in his project.

@noblegiraffethat Is basically how it feels to me. We shall see what the maths department has to say. I do understand that they feel the need to move away from an online system where a lot of kids were just copying the answers from an AI tool. The only answer I can see is going back to textbooks and doing exercises on paper. But then it would have to be marked. I presume one of the big advantages of the homework websites was how it automated the marking.

I know that some schools are moving to giving kids a test on whatever the homework was on the day that it was due, that they would be able to complete if they had done the homework properly. This can then be followed-up if homework score and test score don't match.

However, we always had kids where homework was outstanding and classwork was not. Sometimes they were copying off another kid, sometimes they had a parent or tutor sat with them while they did the homework. The truth always outs in the end.

@cwanne what year group is your child?
Are you sure this isn't a cross-subject project and not just maths?
We did a few in lower secondary (aka years 7-9) at my school (but that millions of years ago...)

The problem is, repeatedly entering questions into ChatGPT doesn't do that either.

@Needmorelego year 8. We have been told it’s the maths homework. They do a project for 6 weeks and then present it to the class and answer questions. The children have been told that it’s to combat the use of AI in homework. There hasn’t been much explanation from the school to the parents yet, but we should get something next week.

@PhineyjI agree. They should definitely need to change the maths homework system. But I am struggling to see how this is an improvement. DD has done 2 weeks of project work and she hasn’t done any maths at all.

@noblegiraffe mentioned that some schools are testing after homework, which I suppose will motivate at least some kids to do the homework themselves so they don’t get caught out by the test. I imagine that a lot of different approaches will be trialled over the next few years.

I remember some joint science homework projects at school!

I always chose Donna as a partner. She could spell, draw and had beautiful writing.
I drafted the technical stuff, handed it over and she transformed it.
So, we both played our strengths, and didnt practice the stuff frankly we probably should have.

The trouble with project stuff for my DDs was the sheer effort of 'getting it done' was so great it swamped any supposed learning.

@SnapAndTap of course you did, it’s human nature. One of my concerns is that, even with a single person project, the children will avoid, or do as little as possible of, the things that are hard that they need to practice.

@TeenToTwentiesIt’s taking DD so much time!

@cwanne well hopefully you will find out more next week.
As I said upthread personally I loved doing projects/coursework and put more effort (and pride) in to them than any other homework.
Every student is different so not every learning method will suit everyone.