Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table I've posted), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

If your child is considering maths with a grade 7 but will be applying for extremely competitive uni courses, consider whether they actually need it as A*s and As from a 7 are not likely. Obviously, anything is possible, check how far they were off an 8, ask their teacher for advice, but please don't assume that an (old) A at GCSE translates to an A at A-level.

This data is from 2019, there's more recent data but not in as clear a format, and the message is basically the same.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths instead, which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

If they haven't been set any bridging work - don't assume that's ok! There are some resources here to help https://alevelmathsrevision.com/bridging-the-gap/

I completely agree with this point actually. It's the teens who need at least 3 A's for their course and are aiming for the higher tier unis who will need to think carefully about maths A level. If they are more likely to meet their offer with a different subject, it may make sense for some teens not to risk it with maths. For others, B's and C's will get them where they need to be. So it really depends on the individual teen ( and good guidance from parents and teachers, based on the teens goals can help here I think).

@Anonymousemouses a 7 is equivalent to an old A at GCSE. No one including noble is saying students should not do maths A level with a 7. Despite some saying we are.

A 7 is most likely to lead to a grade B/C/D – fine for many uni applications and for sure better than doing something she hates. If the maths teacher is behind her doing it then it sounds good. Is there any way she could start with a fourth in case the maths is too much? So sorry that she cannot continue with her Spanish, a 9 at GCSE is excellent.

Thank you - I keep forgetting a 6 is a B in old money and plenty would've gone on to do A level with a B. Also was reading about the grade boundaries etc this year, and apparently there were changes to MFL meant to make things more equitable, but actually it was harder once again. He would've got a 7 with the same percentage last year.

I think it is also worth remembering that years ago (admittedly a lot of years ago!) there was only one grade higher than a B. Now there are three grades higher than a 6. One grade below the top is an 8 and no one is suggesting that's not enough for A level.

I think there is a possibility of movement in the first couple of weeks, but I am not sure what would she would choose out of the other options - economics maybe (but her friend did GCSE economics and DD said it looked awful and wasn't interested).

Apparently she needs a really expensive calculator (this was told to those taking it on transition day - which obviously she didn't get this particular memo for, as she went to other classes.

Would it be an idea to wait to buy the calculator? The transition students were told to have it for the first lesson, but as we only rushed into this yesterday, I am not keen to buy it, if she realises in the first week it is not for her (and would obviously buy it straight away if it is).

It is weird as it was one of her original choices, but the mock freaked both her and me, although her teacher knew it was a 'blip' and was right, she did however go from a 3 to a 9 in Spanish, so can apply herself and work hard when needed.

She probably didn't revise as much for maths either - we bought higher maths past papers and she would always get 100% in less than half the time the paper required, so not sure what was going on really.

@clary you were on my thread when I was panicking about DD (but I couldn't send the Spanish test to you), when she was predicted a 3 - max 4 in Spanish - she got a 9!

Why did they change it though? Is a 9 90% and a 7 70%?

I love this! big well done to her

No it's not as simple as that. The % needed for the various grades differs from subject to subject. Subjects with higher and foundation tiers will also differ (which is why a 6 at higher maths is a much lower % than a 6 at untiered english or history).

It also varies from year to year though not that much tbh.

Why they changed it? hahah don't ask me. I suspect bc they wanted to differentiate the very highest marks tbh. And they can always add a 10. I hope that doesn't happen tho. My A grades at O level already look crap next to DD's 9s.

My DS has just done a level maths and further maths (A/* and an A) and did not use one of the expensive calculators. So they are not critical and I wouldn't be buying it if there is a risk that your DC won't continue with it.

I don’t really understand why they didn’t just raise the % cut offs but thank you for the explanation. So was an A in the 90s harder to get than a 7 today?

It depends on what is meant by ‘expensive calculator’

A-level students definitely need an upgraded, more expensive calculator from the one they have at GCSE, it needs statistical tables and to be able to solve quadratics and simultaneous equations and other stuff.

They do not need a really expensive graphical calculator, although some schools may specify this as they will teach using it.

Neither are specifically needed for the first lessons, they just want you to have it then so they don’t have to keep chasing it up.

Not sure what you mean by raising the % cut offs?

It's not really reasonable to compare tbh. I was joking about my A grades at O level. In the early 90s an A was the top GCSE grade. I think it was felt that there needed to be a higher grade to differentiate. So that A grade would have included (broadly - but as I say you cannot really compare) today's 7-8-9 grades.

One reason why comparisons are not helpful is that the old GCSEs included a lot of coursework which supported some students (and not others! I prefer an exam). It was also open to abuse unfortunately.

@noblegiraffe sorry yes I meant the graphical calculator.

@noblegiraffe Thank you, I will wait till she starts in case she changes.

Is it hopeless her doing maths A Level? As I said above, it was one of her choices originally, then she got the shock 5 in the mock, but the teacher wasn't concerned and said she was more than capable of doing maths A Level, but I was nervous, so was DD, so she changed.

Then she got the 7 yesterday, not really tons of revising, and she did amazing in the past papers, really amazing, but clearly not good enough.

I don't want to knock her confidence, she is REALLY happy with her choice, she sees positives in it and has always been in the top set, even at grammar.

But as everyone else says you need an 9 or at least an 8, then I worry about her with a 7.

This is really interesting. My daughter is just going into Year 11 and is predicted an 8/9 at GCSE. She’s had a very poor teacher this year but managed to get a grade 6 in her GCSE Further Maths this year one year early. Interestingly one set of revision sessions were with a different teacher and she understood all of that material easily. I assumed she would be a good candidate for A Level but does the Further Maths grade bode badly for coping at A Level?

I don't really understand why you are freaking out. The worst that can happen is that she realises it's not for her after all and she switches to a different subject. It is a shame that they couldn't accommodate her choices though. Out of curiosity, why does she dislike RS? I was going to suggest it. :-)

I really don't know why she doesn't like it, she just refused it. I think that because she already has two essay heavy subjects, plus an EPQ extension that is essay based, she didn't want a third.

Was the Further Maths an internal exam or did she do the real exam? I can’t understand why a school would enter pupils for FM in advance of GCSE when this builds and is beyond GCSE. If she has grade 6 a year early and predicted 8/9 then A-level sounds a good prospect.

@Anonymousemouses We got the stupidly expensive graphical calculator via school for around £88 last year as Casio will sell to school at a heavily reduced price. Worth asking. You should be able to get 20% off if you do have to buy one retail as a back to school discount.

My daughter's friend easily flew through GCSE Maths with 96% and an easy 9. She also got 9 in Further Maths. Even she found A-level Maths extremely hard and came out with a very hard-fought A.

I have just given her some A Level maths algebraic questions and some hidden quadratic ones (I literally have no idea what they are, or what the questions asked - both my children got into grammars on merit, as I couldn't afford tutors, and am so RUBBISH at maths that I was as useful as a chocolate teapot), she was able to do them immediately and without hesitation, trying to explain the algebraic stuff to me (and she may as well have spoken Spanish as I didn't have a clue), so she understands this stuff, but I am still worried, especially with all the cautionary tales.

Ultimately though, it is her decision, I tried to steer her to other options yesterday, but she refused.

I think kids who have sat Maths iGCSEs and got a 7 might find Maths A-level easier than those who just sat Maths GCSE because iGCSE Maths contains some A-level content.

I still wouldn't risk it though after this year's crazy Edexcel Maths A-level paper!

The AMSP have transition to A level resources for consolidation and readiness, for students in the same position as your ds.

https://amsp.org.uk/teachers/11-16-maths/transition-to-level-3-maths/essential-skills/

Quite few in DC’s class got a B upwards and had 7 or 8 at GCSE (mine included). They did “that” Edexcel maths paper this year and non iGCSE maths.