Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

[noblegiraffe]

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day.

So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a strong correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder.

There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table I've posted), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications.

If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade.

If your child is considering maths with a grade 7 but will be applying for extremely competitive uni courses, consider whether they actually need it as A*s and As from a 7 are not likely. Obviously, anything is possible, check how far they were off an 8, ask their teacher for advice, but please don't assume that an (old) A at GCSE translates to an A at A-level.

This data is from 2019, there's more recent data but not in as clear a format, and the message is basically the same.

If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths instead, which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography).

If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

If they haven't been set any bridging work - don't assume that's ok! There are some resources here to help https://alevelmathsrevision.com/bridging-the-gap/

I did maths O level (oldie) early, in the November of year 11 as we didn't call it. We then spend the rest of the year on AO maths. Blimey it was tough. I had planned to take maths A level (I do love maths) but I couldn't get my head round the basics of calculus. So I did Greek instead hahahahaha

Thank you, my son was focussed on taking A level maths but only achieved a 6 yesterday. He was devastated and the school gently pointed out that in their experience letting someone on with a 6 would mean a struggle. He has switched to another A level. He said last night he feels relieved - so it is the right decision.

As I said upthread - my school wouldn't let anyone who didn't get an A do A level maths (this was the only subject it applied to) and that was over 30 years ago

Unfortunately that’s their entry requirement. It’s an academic private school and DS only just got enough grade average to stay at the school for 6th form. He got 8877776664

I'm pretty old! I was only second year of GCSE and DH did O level (plus one CSE).

I understand nowadays the A-level involves statistics AND mechanics which would have done for me as I don't understand mechanics bit used to get 100% in statistics, making up for my total inability to ever get an actual solution in calculus. The pages I covered...

That’s good to know. I replied to the other poster and unfortunately that’s their requirement. It’s an academic top 50 type private school so they are allowed to be selective I guess. He got 8877776664.
one of his 8s was English language and as I said he got a 7 in maths. He’s really interested in Economics - doesn’t want to study it at uni but is looking to a management or business degree with MFL (he also got an 8 in Spanish)

@utahsainthood time to look elsewhere I guess then.

Honestly he’s done the right thing. He’ll likely get a much better grade in something else! A 6 isn’t a bad grade at all but A level is just so hard from my experience and I totally agree with this post.

Shame. Economics is not a subject which particularly builds on prior knowledge. Decent written & maths skills are needed, eg 6 in maths & Eng lang. Even selective schools round here only ask for 6s for that subject. Good luck sorting something

We had to do both stats, pure and mechanics for AS and A level in early 00s. I dropped it at at AS level after getting a D.
I think I failed the mechanics (I hated physics and felt like I was in a physics lesson!) but managed to get a C in stats and similar in pure which made the D overall.
I felt like I was learning maths in a foreign language!

I am coming to the conclusion that Maths A-level has been designed to support people who are also doing Further Maths to have a flying start at Oxbridge STEM and Imperial. That’s it. It’s not actually aimed at making the population more mathematically adept.

This is quite a longstanding fight in education. Is it supposed to be educating the people for the overall benefit of society, or just a feeder system for who gets the top jobs/most money?

The conviction that a B or C in Maths makes them not worth studying at all would seem to indicate the latter.

I really don't think anyone is saying it's not worth getting a B or a C in maths A level. Who here says that?

The point is that there will be students who might need an A for their uni app and could have got that with a different subject but were not advised that a 6 in maths was more likely to lead to a lower grade. For 75% of students, a 6 will lead to D/E/U. Not a B or a C. A D or E can get you into a uni but if you would have got a B or C in another subject then you might wish you had known that.

My DS got a B in maths A level btw and it was more than worth his while to take. He didn't want to go on to Oxford or Imperial to study maths, but he studied science at a great uni and his maths supported that, as he freely admits.

I am not sure though that maths A level should be aiming at making the population more mathematically adept. It's meant to be for people who are good at the subject and have a passion for it. Like any A level tbh. I agree tho that education of our YP will benefit society overall.

@noblegiraffe You said on a thread recently that your school allowed Maths A level with a 6. So no one takes any notice in your school! Or many others. I agree it should be a 7 but many schools won’t care. Parents should though.

This thread has TERRIFIED me!.

DD originally chose maths as an A Level, when they made thir initial choices last year (before their January mocks).

Then she got a 5 in her mocks. It spooked her enough to decide to do double English (her school do literature and language as separate A Levels).

At the post mock parent's evening, her maths teacher said the 5 was a 'blip', and she was capable of doing maths A Level, but it spooked DD too much.

Yesterday, after we got the results, we went in. We then found out doing literature and language was NOT an option, as they were in the same block.

DD was devastated.

DD chose Spanish as her MFL - AGAINST the advice if her Y9 Spanish teacher (and her Y8 one also said she would 'struggle'.

Her Y10 Spanish teacher had faith in her and said she was capable of an 8.

Then, the start of Y11 her new teacher predicted a 3/4 and suggested foundation Spanish. I advocated for DD and we agreed to wait for the mocks. She got a 7. Her teacher then invested in DD and DD worked her socks off- she really did - she got a 9!!!!

Yesterday, with double English off the table. and with the encouragement of her amazing Spanish teacher, she decided to do Spanish.

However, despite thos being an option 'in' school, once the choices were confirmed online, we were told that Spanish was NOT an option - as it clashed with both English literature and sociology.

She had to choose between economics, politics, geography (which she hated and only got a 6 in), or RS.

DD was hysterical. She didn't want to sacrifice two subjects and do Spanish + 2 she didn't like, but even with two she wanted, she hated the other choices.

They then said she could do maths - she agreed as it was the only one she could 'stand'.

But reading these posts have terrified me. She got a 7 in her GCSE, which was a leap from the 5 mock - although teachers have NEVER doubted her ability, unlike Spanish - where she leapt from a 3/4 to a 9, so she can work hard, but I am just so scared for her.

However - she also got a 7 in Literature- and I would never doubt her ability to do that A Level, she got the same score in maths, but this thread has literally terrified me.

@Anonymousemouses I get the fear. I have a son doing French A-level with only a 6 and that worries me. I think maths would a 7 would worry me more, but sometimes you have to let them try. I'm trying to get him to swap to Film Studies but he's just not interested.

However I just want to mention RS as it was one of her options. At my son's school it is called Philosophy (though it is the same subject) and when you look at what is actually taught, it's really interesting stuff about ethics. It could pair well with English and Sociology.

Wouldn’t you consider moving schools on that basis, as I am?

I did French A level with a B at GCSE. I got an A at A level and went on to study it at university (alongside law) and got a 2:1 from a Russel Group uni.
If he puts the work in at A level he can do well.

I was in the top set for Maths GCSE in 1988 and took it a year early, getting an A in old money. They made us do AS Maths in what would now be year 11. Woah it was hard. I got a B but I'm sure it ultimately helped me get an A at A level two years later.@Phineyj
Same as me (different year). It put lots off doing the A level.

It's worth remembering that a grade 6 in Maths can be gained with less than 50% of the marks so it is not surprising that the step up to A level would be hard. Last year with the very high grade boundary for grade 9 there were quite a few with grade 8 who had just made careless errors. A grade 6 in English needs 65%+ as it is not tiered.

Nothing wrong with B or C at A level and students with these grades at their degree subjects can get 2ii and 1st at good universities.

But before deciding not to take A-Level
maths after getting a 6, talk to your maths teacher. DC2 got a 6 and their maths teacher was totally happy for them to take A-Level, even though the school officially required a 7. DC2 got a B at A-Level. Although I agree in general.

Thank you for this.

@Anonymousemouses DD should consider moving schools to do the subjects she wants to do, not over-compromise just to stay somewhere known.

That's the good thing about Hants. Pretty much everyone has to move as almost no schools have 6th forms, so no compromising on subjects just to stay where you are.

Thanks for the taking the time to reply, it's very much appreciated. I just asked him and he said, "s'alright". I asked if he likes it and he said yes. I'm none the wiser.

I've told him he'd best crack on with the bridging work and given him a dire warning about getting ready to work hard if he wants to do the subjects he's planning on taking (one is art and design - an absolute TONNE of work needed for that one too)....

In our school we suggest these students will have much more success taking vocational courses, eg BTECs. They will be the top of the r cohort so likely to get Distinctions or Distiction* and then have high number of UCAS points so can access good universities.

She wouldn't even consider it. We were on a tie constraint - it is a grammar, and they need to finalise the internal students numbers on classes to then offer to external, so it was very pressured.

She refused RS in her options, so discounted it straight away.

I am worried, but her teacher did say that she was capable of A Level and the 5 in the mocks was a blip.
I m still terrified though.

I also don't think she wants to do three essay heavy subjects (English literature is obviously essay heavy and from sociology myself I remember it was also quite heavy, plus she us doing a written EPQ (I have no idea what it is - but they had to do an extension course too), so she didn't want an essay based third subject).

She wants to do criminology/forensic psychology, so she said none of the other options would help with that.

Sorry I am clueless.

So a 7 - is that like a C in old style GCSEs?

Is it impossible to do maths with a grade 7?

Bloody freaking out now.

I don't think you need to be quite so scared!

The warning is only that those with lower grades might find the A Level hard/not get a top result! They're not routinely sending kids with a C in A Level maths to gulags! It's going to be fine either way!!

I would try and calm down a little!