Secondary options

[Snowman49]

Looking for some opinions. Currently living in a region that has grammar schools but have found a house in a nearby place (not in the same region) that is in a better area and which would offer us great opportunities but the secondary schools are all very large (1500+ students) comprehensives. What would you do? Move or stay where we are?

How likely is your dc to get a place at a grammar school? If they don’t, what are the options where you are now?

I would think they would get in but it's a few years off at the moment. There are a few good secondary school options around in the area we currently live.

1500 students is not the biggest school tho I agree it's not small. IME as a teacher and parent, 1200+ is fairly typical for a comp in a city.

The numbers of students is not a factor that would put me off tbh (if that is your concern). A very big school (there's one near me with 2000 student) has many more options – for example a friend's DC go to the 2000-student school and they are getting huge amount of input relating to a specific uni course they are interested in – there are basically advice groups for those who want to be vets/medics/law/Oxford, which is certs not the case in some schools (bc not enough YP interested). That's just one example, obvs more sports teams, more range of school trips, more possibilities for GCSE options.

What are the comps like in the area you might move to? Just bc they are comps, again, is not necessarily a bad thing. I went to a grammar school as did DH (not the same school!) and it wasn't something we wanted for our DC. The majority of DC don't attend one.

And ppl are often in favour until they realise their DC won't get in and they look in dismay at the other options. Are the grammars taking top 10% or top 25%? If the latter then the sec mod will feel very creamed off. Tho obvs it increases the chances of your DC getting in. Is there a lot of tutoring to get places at the grammar? That all sounds so stressful from reading on MN (tho obvs I didn't do it with my DC and ofc no tutoring back in the 1970s).

What kinds of opportunities would the new house offer? Would the benefit the whole family and long term? I might be rather wary of staying somewhere that was otherwise not ideal on the off-chance that my DC would get into the grammar school.

edited for typos

Mine went to a big good comp. 330 in each year. Massive upside is the bigger range of gsce options and more vocational BTECs than smaller schools. Top sets are on a par with grammar kids

How was the pastoral care? Was there much bullying? It's true it does give more options for extra curricular, different clubs and teams.

Bullying is in every school - state, grammar, independent. It's not the school or the size, it's how they deal with it.

Yes agree with this. Be wary of any school that says there is no bullying. Almost certainly untrue. And yes the size of the school is not relevant.

A bigger school IME is more likely to have dedicated pastoral staff. We had a team of three non-teaching pastoral colleagues in the 1250-student comp I worked in.

How big are the grammar schools @Snowman49 ? There are advantages of a smaller school (staff know everyone, pupils bond across year groups) but IMO they are outweighed by the disadvantages (fewer GCSE options, less opportunity to participate in external activities, fewer teachers so fewer specialists). The issues you mention are possible issues in any school.

Totally agree with that. I suppose what worries me most is that the comprehensive has more than double the students at a grammar and what affect this may or may not have-in terms of bullying (I know it happens everywhere) but also how yr 7's for example handle such a big school transitioning from a primary school.

Don't penalise the entire family for one child. If your child has anything about them they will get into a grammar and a good uni. There is always private tutoring.

My parents made NO sacrifices for me. They actually stood in my way.I didn't even do A levels. I ended up with a Ph.D but that was down to my own abilities and not the kinds of schools I went to.

@Snowman49 The grammars where I live are all 1300/1400 pupils so the secondaries are smaller! It’s really about school culture and staff. Size of school is besides the point. Smaller grammars cannot offer as many subjects but I’d be guided about quality of education in the alternatives, not size of school. If dc might like sport, music, drama and clubs, I’d consider that too. If there are several grammars, the other schools are not comprehensive. If there’s one super selective grammar they will be. These schools take a small % of dc, but in a grammar county it’s nearer 25%. So area, comps or secondaries and quality would matter to me more than size.

My child went from a year group of 28 to a year group of 300. He finally found his tribe and made friends in a way he hadn't been able to in a far smaller pool at primary. Big isn't necessarily bad. I think all secondary schools try to handle transition well, they know it's a big change. Perhaps start visiting schools across the spectrum and give yourself an idea - you can find the open days/evenings on websites and rock up, you don't have to be in Y6 to look round.

You also need to remember that birth rates are plummeting and class sizes everywhere are dropping (and schools closing) as a consequence.

Bigger the better when it comes to schools. Children are more likely to find their tribe. More after school clubs/sports. More opportunities for GCSEs. As with everything, there will be good and bad teachers and students; in a big school disruptive student behaviour will be diluted and the less good teachers will be balanced by the fantastic ones.

Genuinely @Snowman49 i feel you are laying way too much emphasis on size of school.

750 in the school vs 1500 - still a big year group (100 vs 250 depending on sixth form obvs) but yes, more chance to find good friends in the bigger school. Bullying no less likely in smaller school IME.

Maybe get in touch with the schools to find how they handle transition. But for the vast majority of 11yos, the move to secondary is a move to a bigger group. 80 to 200, 30 to 100, 13 to 250. It’s very much fine.

Thank you everyone for your comments. That's a really big help and has definitely put my mind at ease. It's our first so we were not really sure about secondaries and everything so thank you all. I didn't want to stop the whole family from having those new opportunities but at the same time I didn't want to deny my DC something that is there at the moment and then won't be as easy (I mean the commute) in future. Thank you all

My DC has gone to a smaller secondary (approximately 150 in year compared to some very much larger schools in area). In general, it's worked out well, but the GCSE subject options have been an issue for some children. A couple of options haven't run this year, and there was fury in the parents WhatsApp. It's very true about fewer clubs etc, but DC is happy there and it has been a more nurturing experience than some primary friends at different schools have had.

@MujeresLibres I don’t feel any secondary is truly nurturing but I would say the strict secondary schools are perhaps the opposite of nurturing so that’s something to be aware of. If dc are punished for small mistakes it’s quite hard to feel settled because most primaries are more forgiving. So I’d want to check the ethos of any school very closely because some dc are very misplaced in a strict school.

Ours is a very mixed demographic large comp as like others said, bullying can happen anywhere but it’s certainly not on my radar. The DC have never mentioned any to any extent at all. It has a decent balance of discipline whilst still treating teens as humans and the onus is on them to be decent kind hardworking citizens. It also has decent SEN provision as large enough to have budget for it.

Depends on the school and the child. There are two grammars near us, one is fantastic, the other I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole as it’s very firmly stuck in the 1950s. Comp nearby is very good. A child who thought they were average at primary can do brilliantly in a large secondary as they find themselves nearer the top of the pile. A child who was top of everything at primary can have their confidence knocked at a grammar and suddenly be bottom of the pile. It really depends on the child - what’s right for one child can be anything but for another. You get a gut feeling going round schools. Staff turnover is quite telling as well!

I’d agree that high schools are 100% geared up for transition with Y7s
They know which school they come from and who might know no one etc

If the comps are good and have sensible behaviour policies then go for it.
The comps round me are good and top students happily come out with grades 7-9 whilst lower ability are supported too.

Avoids all that 11+ angst too.

Bigger the better.
My DD's comp had 450 in a year group.
The years didn't really mix - staggered breaks and start/finish times - so it felt quite small in someways.

Massive range of options (eg. 3 MFL plus Latin), extra curriculars and enough staff they had classes of 20 or under for some subjects and every subject was set.

I went to a super-selective grammar and honestly I reckon her comp was better.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow ours is like that. 300. a year but subdivided. So the kids day to day only interact directly with half that. So 150 which isn’t a big deal when your primary was 90 a year