Does being a young carer help in a Year 7 school appeal?

[busySunflower]

Does being a young carer adds any advantage in secondry school appeal process ? for year 7 entry ?

Given that the information is collected in the school census and published by the government, it clearly is public information. The fact that some schools may fail to report the figure or report an incorrect figure does not alter that. And I struggle to see how revealing the number of children who are young carers would allow them to be identified without additional information, any more than revealing the number of children on FSM allows them to be identified (also public information).

Sadly our second appeal which involved panel probing us the sensitive information of YC numbers also got dismissed they only added sympthesied the child being young carer and failed to understand the offered school doesnt have any such provision.

we are sure for complaining about it, any suggestion is appriciated.

Did you give any reasons why you feel that ppl carer support is necessary?

You're misunderstanding me. The number is redacted if it is low enough that individuals could be identified - for FSM as well as Young Carers. Otherwise, for example, a published entry saying there are, say two children receiving FSM (or are YC) for St Munchkin Primary, Borsetshire would mean that anybody in the village could say 'Ah, that's the Grundy kids, that father of theirs must be fiddling the dole to qualify' or 'Young Carer? That's got to be the Archer's kid, unless Grundy's also pulling a fast one about that as well, means he's claiming disability benefits, the workshy layabout'.

The OP didn't even know about the statistics site until the information about the site was volunteered - so where exactly did they get the information prior to that?

yes YC support with in school is the only one that reaches them

I’m sorry that you haven’t had the outcome that you wish for. You have done your best for both of your children and you can’t ask more of yourself than that. Unfortunately the Bucks grammar schools are very oversubscribed and they can’t offer places to all those that wish to attend them in neighbouring areas, no matter how worthy the case is. We live in Bucks and the competition for places is high. I’m nervous for my child (entry 2028, if he passes) and we live well within catchment. I hope your son does well in his allocated school, best of luck.

Independent Appeal Pannel's responsibility is to weight the prejudice to the child which we clearly articulated.

It is their responsibility and they will have done that but they will also have to look at the strength of all the other appeals and make a decision as to who has the strongest case and how many can the school take. You might think your case is strong but you won’t know what other appeals have been heard and their strength. If I was on your panel I would wonder why your child needed that support specifically in school as opposed to getting it outside of school. I know from experience that young carers are very much impacted by their role but I would still want to be assured how imperative it is to get this support in school. Why is it your child needs that provision in school?

we now recieved the clerk's notes, and submitted our complaints to DfE after analysing in detail we had nearly 8 grounds of complaints, we also got it confirmed from the clerk not a single appeal was upheld this year for this school no appeals were upheld in last 7 years, but 8 years ago there was one appeal was upheld

Can someone explain me what happens internally with in DfE, will they be taking an opion from Clerk and IAP AA or will they be reaching out to LA and then IAP and AA ?

I am confident IAP and AA will understnad the nature of the complaint I am not sure if it goes to LA

Also this acadmy is a trust and LA does the admission arrangements and appeal arrangement

Will the school be invovled in investigating the complaint, I wish they would

Will DfE does the proper investigation or do they open and shut it as if they could be baised to school/LA ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/academies-admission-appeals-complaints-review/academies-admission-appeals-complaints-review-academic-year-2025-to-2026

This page might help? Last year, of 284 cases referred, only 120 of them were within the SCCU remit, and of those only 45 were found to have maladministration. Of the 45, only 19 were felt to have maladministration that affected the outcome, so a fresh appeal was recommended. There were a further 7 cases where fresh appeals were offered without the intervention of the SCCU and 2 cases where a place had been offered.

You need to be aware that the complaint is only considered in light of procedure, not outcome. They won't consider whether they think your child should have been awarded a place. They also won't consider whether particular evidence should have been given more weight. They will literally look at the Code and whether there is evidence that all the steps for considering appeals and communicating the outcomes were followed.

I have gone through that before submiting the appeal, my question is specific how its being handled

I don’t think any of us know the precise processes within the DfE, beyond what’s outlined in the guide linked above. Lougle has provided an excellent summary of what they’re looking for and what they can and can’t do.

My answer above answers that question. There will be a procedural review, and after that they will either decide that there was no maladministration, that there was incidental maladministration (i.e. it didn't have an impact on the outcome) or there was maladministration and they recommend that you are offered a new appeal.

The school will not be involved in investigating the complaint. The DfE investigator will conduct the investigation and decide the outcome.

As @Lougle says, the only question the investigation will look at is whether there have been any breaches of the Admission Appeals Code. They do not look at the evidence to see whether they think the appeal panel made the right decision. The clerk's opinion of the outcome is irrelevant, as is anyone else's.

If the appeal was procedurally correct, they will uphold the panel's decision. However, if the Appeals Code has been broken and this has affected the outcome, they will recommend a new hearing with a different panel.

Without knowing the 8 grounds you have submitted, it is impossible to say whether you have any chance of getting a new hearing. Note, however, that you did not need to get the clerk's notes before referring the matter to the DfE. They will get the clerk's notes directly from the clerk.

Will there be any invovlement of LA as well on this, If they have to defend from their side who will it be LA/Clerk/AA/School ?

The DfE is not going to rehear your case or reconsider the evidence. This is entirely about whether the correct process has been followed. There is no question of anyone defending. The DfE will only be interested in establishing how the appeal was conducted and whether the Appeals Code was breached.

Why are you so concerned about who the DfE might contact?

I think you're getting a bit confused. This is an administrative exercise. They will look at things that are raised as relevant, so not every review will need to look at all of these factors, but they may include

• Was the appeal panel independent?
• Did the deadline for lodging appeals comply with the code?
• Did you get at least 10 working days notice of your appeal date?
• Were you told that you could submit additional evidence and were you given a deadline for that evidence?
• Did you get a decision letter within the timeline set out in the code?
• Did the admissions authority comply with reasonable requests from the appellant for information?
• Did all parties get all the information submitted to the panel in advance of the hearing (the bundle)?
• Was the venue suitable to the needs of the appellant?
• Did the clerk ensure that all parties were present at all times during the appeal?
• Did the parties get a notification of the order of the appeal hearing proceedings in advance of the hearing?
• Did the clerk take notes of the decision making process?
• Did the panel follow the two stage process for deciding the appeal?
• Did the clerk record the decision on stage one and stage two?
• Did the clerk record the votes of the panel?
• Where the vote was tied, was the chair of the panel given the casting vote?
• Were the notes from the hearing kept securely and available for scrutiny by the SCCU?

Nobody will be asked to justify their case. The panel is appointed to assess the evidence and make a decision. The SCCU will not override their decision, nor ask for a fresh appeal because they don't agree with their decision. The only reason they will recommend a fresh appeal is if there is evidence that due process was not followed, and they think that there is a likelihood that it impacted the appeal process.

For example

• if the venue wasn't suitable for the appellant but the appellant didn't notify the clerk that they had difficulties with the venue, that won't be considered relevant.
• If the clerk didn't notify the appellant of the right to submit further information, but the appellant had phoned the appeals department, was told how to do so, and submitted the extra evidence, the SCCU may remind them of their obligation to include that information, but it won't have affected the appeal hearing, so no fresh appeal would be recommended.
• If the appeal panel turned out to have a member with an active connection to the appeal school, it's likely that the SCCU would recommend a fresh appeal.
• If there was no evidence of consideration of evidence, a fresh appeal is likely to be recommended

It really is about the process, not the outcome.

Apologies, my colon isn't working.

ETA that it was my keyboard colon, not my bowel! Happily, it is working again.

:

thank you so much

I’m feeling sorry for Bucks! This is the parent that would drive you to drink. Appeals are not upheld because schools are full! They are full based on the LA following the admissions code. You know there was no special category for a young carer and it was a highly dubious appeal in the first place. You really are a nightmare!

Parents have every right to appeal, no matter how tenuous their grounds. @busySunflower was asking for guidance on the processes surrounding a failed appeal, which is also fair enough. At the end of the day, as long as someone is polite and respectful, following through to the very end of the process is absolutely fine. When it's all done, they won't have to wonder if they could have got a better outcome if they tried.

In my opinion, if certain areas didn't have systems of education that give a better education to those who have the means to secure it, the world would be a better place. But they do, and @busySunflower is in such an area, so I can't see how s/he can be blamed for trying to get the best education for their child.

Also, to be slightly pedantic, schools are not full until an appeal panel has decided they are so full that they cannot take another pupil. Until then, they are only 'full' in the sense that they have reached or exceeded the Published Admission Number. To push the envelope even further, it could be argued that they are never absolutely 100% full because there could be an appeal case that was so compelling that even a quite over full school would still be expected to accommodate an extra pupil.

Appeals only happen when a school is full. For secondary schools, an appeal can still succeed on the basis that the disadvantage to the child from not being admitted outweighs the problems the schools will face from having to cope with an additional child. Calling OP a nightmare for appealing is really out of order.

@prh47bridge She’s already appealed. I know about appeals thanks and of course appeals are standard procedure. No issue there.

This is a complaint to the DofE and nearly everyone said in the first place she had no grounds. I think dc HAS a grammar place just not the one she wanted. In Bucks that’s a great result. Maybe you don’t know Bucks? There is no category of carer for special consideration or naming a school. Of course parents appeal but don’t go to these lengths to prove a point. Many of our grammars DO take over PAN on appeal , but we also have the appeals where dc have just not quite got the mark needed. I do think the op is a nightmare - I’m not retracting that. This DofE complaint won’t get anywhere. School decisions have been made by the appeals panels and the op still thinks dc as a carer (somewhat dubious) is what matters. It’s not, it’s process. Every Tom Dick and Harry could be said to be caring for siblings while parents work. What then? This is all about convenience for the Op and the grammar given is NO different in quality to the one she wants. There are NO useless grammars here. Most people would be over the moon to get in.

In addition I would be amazed if Bucks had messed this up. As a LA, they hear hundreds of appeals each year for secondary schools/11 plus appeals. In my day it well exceeded 500. It’s probably more now. They know the time of day. People appeal the 11 plus mark and the school allocation so more than just school.

This is a complaint to the DofE and nearly everyone said in the first place she had no grounds

Whilst a number of people said she had no grounds for an appeal, those with expertise (PanelChair, PatriciaHolm and Lougle) were all of the view that she potentially has a case. I agree with them. If the appeal school has better provision for young carers than the allocated school, OP clearly has a case.

And the information OP has posted shows that she may well have grounds for a complaint to the DfE. For a start, the panel appear to have decided to reject the appeal on the grounds that they were not convinced that the appeal school was the only school that can meet her child's needs. If that was their approach, it is clearly wrong. The only question is whether the appeal school would meet her child's needs better than the allocated school. The fact that some other schools may be equally able to meet her child's needs is irrelevant. The other schools may not have places available.

There is also a suspicion in the decision letter that the appeal panel may have effectively outsourced their decision making to the panel that decided which children met the school's medical and social needs criteria. If they did, that is also clearly wrong. They are required to make their own decision, not rely on someone else's.

Also, the panel excluded some of OP's evidence on spurious grounds, arguing that she should not have had information which the school would have been required to provide if requested and which is, in any case, publicly available. Excluding this information may have damaged OP's case.

I don't know if her reference to DfE will succeed as I haven't seen all the information, but there is certainly enough in OP's posts to suggest she may have a case for a fresh hearing with a different panel.