Unsuccessful grammar school appeal

[Will2]

Good morning all,

I'm looking for further advice from people who have found themselves in this situation, or any advice from ex panel members which may prove beneficial please.

We got the awful news that my we didn't win my son's grammar school appeal on Friday, with my son being devastated.

We felt we put a compelling argument together;however the panel we had must've felt the schools case was heavier considering our of 39 cases only 1 case was upheld!

My main argument was around a rare medical condition he has and how this impacted him on the day of his first test. He scored above the pass mark on his verbal reasoning test but didn't perform to the best of his ability, citing how he was struggling to focus and concentrate which connects to his condition (NHS diagnosis letter of his condition was provided as evidence) - this is the main reason why he didn't achieve the historically high entry score because he achieved a brilliant score in his spatial reasoning test.

We are waiting for feedback; however the panel didn't ask us one single question about his condition during our individual appeal hearing which my wife thought was quite strange. I just thought they must've researched it and understood how this could've affected him.

The other point I felt was strong in our argument, was how our son is musically gifted and what the school we were appealing for could offer him. He has a grade three certification from the trinity college in London (soon to be 4) and this particular school has a recording studio (his allocated school doesn't have this) as well as opportunities to represent the school in this field.

We highlighted other points during our appeal and I'll be honest, I came away from our appeal quite positive, boy was I wrong!

Any advice from this point forward would be much appreciated. I'm waiting on the feedback which I hope will give me closure. Such an awful process to go through. Thanks in advance!

Ex teacher. You don’t want them just scraping in to a grammar. You really don’t. They’ll be paddling like ducks their whole time there. Just because they can scrape a pass does not mean grammar school is best for them.

This is done to create a level playing field. Bright students on pupil premium are disadvantaged in one way or another and yet despite this they have done done well enough in the entrance exam for the school to think that they are worthy of a place. The same is done for disadvantaged students during the university application process.

Given that many of us know which specific school it is and other posts have given a good indication of where the poster lives, it’s entirely right not to violate the privacy of an 11 year old by posting something specific about his medical history.

In fairness, you can't possibly know that @Will2's DS isn't musically gifted. At most, you can say that he hasn't evidenced his giftedness by performing beyond age expectations. It is possible, for example, that he started playing his first instrument 1 month before the appeal and took his grade 3 immediately.

However, that doesn't alter the fact that the panel only felt that one case crossed the threshold to compel the school to take another pupil.

The thing is in this particular school you can pass reasonably well and still not get in (for example my son got top 7% for nvr and top 20% for verbal and exceeded the pass mark by 20 points). The school aims to identify the top 25% so many would be well within this. So it's not necessarily a case of scraping through, but getting a reasonably good pass. It's been a bumper year for applications and i wonder if cost of living and vat on school fees has worked against us. The catchment is so wide and maybe I was naive at seeing it as our local school when it's not really, it just happens to be down the road.

Hey ho, it's a good life lesson that you can do well and still be disappointed! We are incredibly proud of our boy but we would be either way. A grammar school would have been brilliant for him but sadly not to be.

i wonder if cost of living and vat on school fees has worked against us.

Yes, I’m sure this has been a factor.

Good luck with your next appeal!

Were you not able to submit medical evidence before the tests for adjustments to be made?

@Will2 was your son tutored (by a parent or external tutor) for the exam? Willing to bet that he was.

The high likelihood is that PP children will not have been, or not to the same extent. It’s quite easy to “make it make sense” when you think of what a relative disadvantage those kids are likely to have been at, and yet they still managed to score the same or within a few marks of your privileged child.

Let’s not stray into the realms of fantasy here! Grade 3 at age 11 is hardly gifted. Even my decidedly non-musically children reached Grade 3 by 8 years old with one term-time lesson a week at the state primary.

It doesn't matter. The OP was entitled to make any representation to the panel for consideration and it is up to the panel to weigh the evidence.

@Will2 if it makes you feel any better, with a couple of exceptions I've found grammar schools to be notoriously poor at making accommodations for pupils with any sort of additional need.
I've recently worked with a family with a dyslexic child who is not being supported at his grammar school despite having very modest needs which should mainly be met by quality teaching if it was in place.
Parents lost an appeal to transfer to a local oversubscribed comprehensive school and will try again next year.
And gently, you will stand no chance of getting an EHCP, his needs would be nowhere near the threshold from what you've said.

This happened to my brother.

He and I both sat the 11+, a year apart. We got the exact same scores. In my year, my score was enough to get in comfortably. In my brother’s, it put him about 10th on the waiting list.

The issue was, our grandfather has died just before my brother’s test. My parents applied for mitigating circumstances as the death was on the Thursday before the first test, and the funeral on the Thursday before the second. They were told that they couldn’t give mitigating circumstances as they didn’t think a grandparent dying was as upsetting as a pet dying.

My parents appealed but got nowhere. He ended up at a small private school, he probably would’ve got into the school but my parents opted for the private school instead.

It isn't about this solely though is it it?

I love how you perceived I'm against others when that isn't the case. My argument is how other people judge my son isn't of grammar school ability when he scored higher than others who are judged in different criteria to be of grammar school ability.

There isn't a valued argument as to why this is the case.

Of course there is a valid reason. If a disadvantaged child gets the same score as your child despite their disadvantages then they have achieved more and have higher potential. I don’t know why you can’t understand that?

@Will2 I think your son, along with many other boys who scored at or above the 220, are of grammar school standard. It was an extra competitive year for this school and that may continue for future years with VAT and COL impacts.

Other grammar schools in your county have a lower cut off mark, as I understand it, so he is certainly of a standard to get into those (appreciate that distance may be unworkable)

Hey @Will2 I have to be honest, I don’t see anyone on this thread being negative or attacking you. I only see people trying to explain that there is not much more you can do beyond being on the waiting list, and bigging up the allocated school. People have also tried to explain the school allocations process. @MarchingFrogs gave a very clear explanation but your reply I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure how they treat each child's application for places; it seems completely alien to me suggests you didn’t read it.

Unless the places are decided by lottery or some other means unrelated to locality (such as church attendance as @SheilaFentiman suggests) then a child living seven houses away from the school they listed first and not getting a place seems unlikely. How are places allocated at that school? If it is by lottery that explains it. If it is on distance then I suggest the people you mention perhaps didn’t list the school and assumed they would be offered it anyway?

This comment from you other children with lower scores in other admission criteria are considered to be of 'grammar' school ability, yet my son scored higher shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of pupil premium. Yes it is a blunt tool but I for one would rather have even a blunt tool as a means of trying to even out social inequality. The idea is that children of very low earners, or those who are otherwise disadvantaged (eg care leavers) face more issues in showing their academic potential than DC of supportive, better-off parents – so the PP swings things slightly in their favour. The chances are that a PP child who scored a few marks lower than your son, with all the support I am sure you gave him, has perhaps a higher level of academic potential; at anyway the PP weighting allows for this.

What can you do? Talk about how amazing the offered school is; look at waiting lists of any school you would be happier with; look into your second and third choices and how places were allocated and why you were not offered one (it’s not bc you listed them second and third btw) and see if there has been a mistake; and stay really positive. But in terms of the failed grammar appeal, there is not much more at all, sorry.

The 2nd school has zones. So (and these aren't exact), zone 1 is up to a mile and has 70 places. Zone 2 is 1-2 miles and has 60. Etc up to the final one, which is 7+ miles. So if roughly 120 kids within a mile apply, only 70 get a place and it's completely random. So someone next door to the school could miss out in Zone 1. And someone 10 miles away could get a place in the last zone.

The figures above aren't much off this year. The grammar school having such a high cut off (mainly caused by private school vat as far as I can tell) has had a knock on effect. There are 2 more schools in town. Some kids who live near the above school (zoned) are slightly too far from school 3 and end up travelling 3 or even 4 miles across town to school 4.

I'm sure this happens everywhere though. It just means kids from certain areas fall between the cracks because their closest schools don't go on distance, but they live too far from the ones that do. It's kind of why people feel a bit resentful of people from other towns choosing this town's grammar school as it makes it worse for local kids.

It has been explained several times. Another way of looking at it is that the PP kids effectively went into the process with a negative score in the test, so their achievement is equivalent to the kids who scored at or above the threshold, unlike your son, who had the head start but still didn’t meet the required marks.

It’s not just about objective scores on the day, it’s about innate ability and potential.

Thanks @OUB1974 that’s clear. It would be useful to know about this zoning when applying as it might be worth listing a school you will get into on distance as well.

I don’t see where the OP says what school this is btw but anyway.

Btw @OUB1974 I'm sure this happens everywhere though. It just means kids from certain areas fall between the cracks because their closest schools don't go on distance, but they live too far from the ones that do. – this really doesn't happen everywhere. I know that in (some of?) Brighton, school places are allocated by lottery, which seems to me a recipe for disaster; and then wherever you and the OP are has this odd zoning system (which seems to guarantee some pupils will live further out than is surely ideal) at at least one school; but in the vast majority of areas, distance is basically the standard criterion for the majority of schools. If you live near enough to the school and list it, your DC will get a place.

Hello, could you go on a waiting list? Is it really possible the medical condition affected him that day?

I agree with PPs my DD is Year 6 and Grade 3 on two instruments - the musically gifted ones are already a Grade 8 and will be moving onto music based private schools.

We come from the same place @clary so recognised this from another thread! So in the same position.

I think what has happened is that the mark was so significantly higher this year and nobody was expecting it. I know we probably should have but it's unheard of and a lot of us have never done this before! And school 4 has a bad reputation, so we would have to have 3 setbacks to be given that one after putting the other 3 down. The OP did... we had 2 setbacks and got our 3rd choice.

The thing is I don't think there are any to get in on distance, as the ones we're closest enough to don't do that!

The zoning system does sound bonkers @OUB1974 especially in a location where other schools are using different systems

My response was ignored earlier by the OP but there is an alternative grammar school in a nearby town which I believe is undersubscribed and for which the pass mark is 220. There is a direct train there and local children do travel to the school. If the OP is so convinced that only a grammar school education will suit his / her child, then that is a viable option.

Had my son not gotten into the OPs preferred grammar, and not had the ability to pay to go private , this is what I would have done.

Depends where you live in town though and family finances. A direct train is fine if you're in walking distance of the railway station, but judging from the OP's posts i don't think they are (otherwise they'd have got into their 3rd choice on distance). You also wouldn't get free school transport there, which would certainly be an issue for us. One of the panel mentioned this school in our appeal, but then another member confirmed we wouldn't get any transport, which ruled it out (for us anyway).

was he tutored?