Unsuccessful grammar school appeal

[Will2]

Good morning all,

I'm looking for further advice from people who have found themselves in this situation, or any advice from ex panel members which may prove beneficial please.

We got the awful news that my we didn't win my son's grammar school appeal on Friday, with my son being devastated.

We felt we put a compelling argument together;however the panel we had must've felt the schools case was heavier considering our of 39 cases only 1 case was upheld!

My main argument was around a rare medical condition he has and how this impacted him on the day of his first test. He scored above the pass mark on his verbal reasoning test but didn't perform to the best of his ability, citing how he was struggling to focus and concentrate which connects to his condition (NHS diagnosis letter of his condition was provided as evidence) - this is the main reason why he didn't achieve the historically high entry score because he achieved a brilliant score in his spatial reasoning test.

We are waiting for feedback; however the panel didn't ask us one single question about his condition during our individual appeal hearing which my wife thought was quite strange. I just thought they must've researched it and understood how this could've affected him.

The other point I felt was strong in our argument, was how our son is musically gifted and what the school we were appealing for could offer him. He has a grade three certification from the trinity college in London (soon to be 4) and this particular school has a recording studio (his allocated school doesn't have this) as well as opportunities to represent the school in this field.

We highlighted other points during our appeal and I'll be honest, I came away from our appeal quite positive, boy was I wrong!

Any advice from this point forward would be much appreciated. I'm waiting on the feedback which I hope will give me closure. Such an awful process to go through. Thanks in advance!

Honestly, if he's scored fairly well below the cut-off then it may well be that he'd struggle at a grammar anyway. The PP point you made is irrelevant as it doesn't apply to your son.

At the school in question, it’s more that the lowest admitted score is very high this year vs many prior years. 220 is the minimum standard so 242 is very high above that, indicating a really competitive year.

Our local Grammar school runs what they call an ‘In year’ entry procedure, at any point before year 11. As well as boys who have never taken the 11+, this late entry procedure may be used to re-assess boys who, under a previous selection procedure (11+ or Late Entry), have been found not to be of grammar school ability. There are not a huge number of places, but if a child passes at that stage, then they are placed on a waiting list, if there isn’t an available place immediately.

You could see how things go with your ds’s allocated school in yr 7, as to how well he settles in and whether you consider the school is meeting his needs, and maybe he could take the late entry exam, if you still think the Grammar school would be a better fit? I imagine there will be information in the online prospectus as to whether, and how, late entry admissions are run at the school in question, and what the format is. Just to say, though, I would think most candidates will undertake tutoring before the exam, as is the case with the 11+.

Are you in Zone 1 for the 2nd appeal @Will2 ? We are and I'm just planning an appeal. I do think they have a more flexibility than the grammar so hopefully we will win. I suspect we got the school you put as 3rd choice - which seems a lovely school but no 6th form and more vocational subjects and definitely not right for my boy. We were only just within the last place offered in terms of distance. I suspect you may live fairly near us (or the same side of town at least) and it makes it very easy to fall between the cracks as the two closest schools don't go on distance but the schools that do go on distance can be a bit too far away.

The panel suggested we go to the grammar in the next town... until I pointed out the cost of bus passes and that we wouldn't get transport funded as you're expected to choose a more local school. You can't win! I'm looking forward to and dreading reading the letter to see where I went wrong.

I am just getting myself fired up to work as hard so I can to win appeal number 2...good luck. 💐

@maudelovesharold in the case of OP, his child has a score which is above the qualifying score - so I think he would “hold” that score on any ongoing waiting list rather than sit a later test. I may be out of date though.

Lots of people go to schools where they don’t already have friends. He will be fine

No, you're correct for any state school, at least until Christmas; waiting lists have to be held in oversubscription criteria order (and places offered) until December 31st in the year of entry. After that point, the school may choose to carry on with this, or in the case of a grammar school, hold mid-year extra ce exams to fill any places which become available.

Sorry@Will2, but your son certainly is not musically gifted and obviously didn't do well enough in the exam to get a place in the first cut. What do you expect them to do, they have limited places and they go to the children who they consider will do best at their school? They are the experts, I'm sure that you're not the only parent to be disappointed, but there is nowhere else you can take this.

Op if none of your sons school friends got School 2 it is likely you all live too far away. They cant penalise you for listing the Grammar. School "Last Distance Offered" areas can be very tight in highly populated areas.

Its too late now, but you need to look at Entrance criteria before applications to understand the reality of getting a place. Iknow you probably were countibg on the Grammar place... but Grammar school is never a guarantee. Especially at the moment when more pepple are choosing State over Private.

Your best bet now is researchimg all the schools in the area and getting on various waiting lists.

(As for PP places... these exist as the families are less likely to be able affird tutors, music lessons, extra maths etc.)

This .
Dd2 got a place at a grammar school and her best friend at primary school didn’t and went to the local secondary school
They both achieved very similar GCSE results 8s and 9s. Dd2’s friend joined the 6th form at a grammar school
Both dd 2 and her friend are now at the same excellent university studying the same competitive course and are both on their way to achieving a first class
What I am saying in a roundabout way is not to dwell on this and focus on the school he has a place for

That's the point of that criterion though.

Grammars as I'm sure you're aware, have much lower PP percentages than their surrounding schools.

Not having to live on such a low income will benefit your son.

I know the 2nd school and it doesn't go on distance but uses zones. There are over 50 kids within a mile of the school that also didnt get a place. It's a lottery and exacerbated by the numbers not getting into the grammar.

I think it's absolutely fine to be disappointed when some or all of the following are true:

1. if they were a girl with the same score they'd have got into the girls' grammar.
2. if they'd have lived in the next town they'd have got into that grammar.
3. if they'd got the same score at any point over the last 10 years they'd have got a place.
4. children scoring 20 marks less on pp have places.
5. non local children have around a third of the spaces.
6. children whose parents can afford tutoring but are of lower ability have places.

There is absolutely nothing any of us can do now and nobody wants the disruption of moving a child mid year even if places did come up, which they won't to that extent. But it's OK to smart from the unjustness of it even when the rules have been followed. We just need to dust ourselves off and move on to the next appeal.

Sorry but I think it is completely out of order to bring up pupil premium kids, or armed forces kids or out of area kids. The oversubscription criteria are clearly published well in advance and you know what category your DC falls into, if you bother to read it.
Every year there are people who do not do the amount of prep required or do not ask for extra time and then try and blame other kids for taking their places. The effort should have been put in before the tests.
You do not need to pay an external tutor if you are educated yourself and can clearly write on MN. CGP books and time invested well in advance has exactly the same outcome. If you do not prepare in advance, then best to blame yourself, not pupil premium kids!

@MarchingFrogs and @SheilaFentiman But the op’s dc scored 235, when apparently the pass mark this year was 242. At the GS my 3 went to, the pass mark was different every year, and you only went on the waiting list, if you passed the exam that year, not based on previous pass marks! And regardless of pp and other over-subscription criteria, you still had to reach the pass mark (or be close and have extenuating circumstances so as to succeed at appeal) to be offered a place/be put on the waiting list.

Unless the system is completely different at this school, (entirely possible!) I can’t see how the op’s ds would be put on a waiting list when he was deemed not to have passed this year. My advice would be to double check with the school!

The pass mark here is 321, with no lower than 100 on each section. OP, at our local grammar schools you can apply every academic year and take school based tests.

Hi @Will2, does the school offer the 13+ exam?

My DGD failed the 11+ by a point or two. We
didn’t appeal but we are fortunate in that we could send her to independent school.

We also had to face the truth that grammar school would have been way out of her depth. They are highly academic here, we live in Kent. I have heard of many children that struggle in grammar and one or two a year transfer to my DGDs school as I am sure some transfer to state schools.

Children in her year, mainly boys funnily enough, that hadn’t passed the 11+ took the 13+ and passed (with much tutoring I guess). Off to grammar school in year 9. That had been their parent’s intention.

Check it out.

@maudelovesharold it is different.

No one sitting the test without a score of 220 will get in - that’s consistent across years and you could say that’s the pass mark, I guess. It’s not scaled so that only the top x% or 200 kids get 220 or more.

So everyone above 220 is “pre-qualified” for a place. They then just run down the ranking order (after LAC and PP) until they run out of places. This year, the last place given out was at 242.

Often in past years everyone with, say, 224 or over would get in. It’s been creeping up, i think, to 230-odd but 242 is high.

11+ shouldn't require prep.

@MNLurker1345 no it doesn’t. I’m not sure any state grammar specifically runs the 13+

Private schools do so less and less, and used to do so because prep schools ran to yr 9 so it was worth having an entry point where a couple more classes were added at 13.

It shouldn’t but I don’t know anyone who didn’t prep.

Pass mark is 220.

“11+ shouldn't require prep.“

That is a moral judgment. The reality is it requires at least familiarisation and in many areas, it requires learning the full Year 6 Maths curriculum in advance.

My DS2 refused to do prep before the summer holidays before the exams. I knew he might not get in, despite being very intelligent. I certainly was not going to blame the system and everyone else I could think of, if he did not get in. He got lucky somehow, but it was certainly not down to effort compared to most of his cohort! My DS2 did the bare minimum, that was a calculated risk.

When it comes to academics, including later on, effort and sweat is as important as innate ability. If you do not put in the effort somewhat (and I mean basic familiarisation is required) then an equally smart kid who did is going to get the place over you. That is just common sense.

OP now is asking the time to become completely positive about the school your child will be attending. What are positives for it? I’m sure you have been trying to be positive with your son but if you are actually positive he will likely pick up on it. If you did not list it you may not have looked at it very carefully.

@SheilaFentimanBoarding schools for boys have entry at 13 and plenty of Co-ed too. They also have day pupils, eg Stowe and lots of others. Dc often go to a prep for 2 years and then go to a private school. That’s not unusual.