Unsuccessful grammar school appeal

[Will2]

Good morning all,

I'm looking for further advice from people who have found themselves in this situation, or any advice from ex panel members which may prove beneficial please.

We got the awful news that my we didn't win my son's grammar school appeal on Friday, with my son being devastated.

We felt we put a compelling argument together;however the panel we had must've felt the schools case was heavier considering our of 39 cases only 1 case was upheld!

My main argument was around a rare medical condition he has and how this impacted him on the day of his first test. He scored above the pass mark on his verbal reasoning test but didn't perform to the best of his ability, citing how he was struggling to focus and concentrate which connects to his condition (NHS diagnosis letter of his condition was provided as evidence) - this is the main reason why he didn't achieve the historically high entry score because he achieved a brilliant score in his spatial reasoning test.

We are waiting for feedback; however the panel didn't ask us one single question about his condition during our individual appeal hearing which my wife thought was quite strange. I just thought they must've researched it and understood how this could've affected him.

The other point I felt was strong in our argument, was how our son is musically gifted and what the school we were appealing for could offer him. He has a grade three certification from the trinity college in London (soon to be 4) and this particular school has a recording studio (his allocated school doesn't have this) as well as opportunities to represent the school in this field.

We highlighted other points during our appeal and I'll be honest, I came away from our appeal quite positive, boy was I wrong!

Any advice from this point forward would be much appreciated. I'm waiting on the feedback which I hope will give me closure. Such an awful process to go through. Thanks in advance!

@SheilaFentiman, the school I referred
to is Cranbrook Grammar, which does offer the 13+ if places are available.

Apologies was not aware this was not more widely available.

1. The thread is about a state grammar and I was responding to a PP who asked if this school had an 13+ entry
2. I didn’t say no private schools had a 13+ entry, I said it was becoming less common

Interesting, thanks.

i note you say if places are available - are they often available? I would expect most state grammars to be oversubscribed

Ah, I see Cranbrook has 8 day places for 13+ vs 90 for 11+

Learnt something new today!

@SheilaFentiman, 3 boys went from my DGDs school.

We live in a built up grammar schools area. This could possibly affect availability.

I know of kids who transfer in y9

The thing is all these state boarding schools are also close to £20000 a year now (unless you get a forces contribution/in care and the state pays). So hardly cheap. It is proper private school territory cost wise and those with a high percentage of boarding pupils, is presumably relatively socially exclusive. Just like a lot of the most sought after comprehensives with tiny catchments and big house prices. And now most grammar schools are also extremely competitive and require prep. It is what it is. I think plenty of people are simply concluding it is easier to just go to a local school and pay a few GCSE tutors if a bit of the teaching is sporadic from year 10. Rather than get too worked up about it all anymore.

@SheilaFentiman, it is actually a plan for some children that don’t pass here. These boys made it clear in year 7, that they were leaving in year 9 and had only started at the independent school because they had failed the 11+. My DGD told me this.

will2 - are you in Lincolnshire by any chance - if so I happen to know that the boys grammar school in Sleaford has spaces as they lowered their pass mark this year.

But students in pupil premium who scored a lesser score are?make it makes sense.

But that used to be the whole point of the 11+. It was based on natural aptitude so was more of a level playing field.

Now virtually everyone has their child tutored which makes a complete mockery of it. I can't see the point of grammar schools anymore.

As had been said… It’s an attempt to balance out the disadvantages that those on PP have in life vs those who don’t. Same as LAC are first on the list in almost every, if not every, state school criteria. It’s not a perfect measure but it’s objective and probably the best that can be done.

And again - if those 20 school places had been in gen pop and not reserved for PP, chances are that the cut off score would have been 239 or so. It’s a high cut off year and that’s a real shame for you and DS, but it isn’t unfair.

@2dogsandabudgie when do you think the 11+ did manage to reward natural aptitude rather than, say, growing up in a house with books rather than one without? When did it change?

@2dogsandabudgieThat view depends on whether it’s a grammar county and what the other schools are like. In some areas, 30% of the brightest dc are missing! Of course there’s a
point to them but of course some people don’t like them.

Because those pupils are at a relative disadvantage. My son receives PP but because it is the Service Child PP and not FSM he wasn't entitled to admission on a lower test score. Luckily he performed well on the day of the test. If you want to play the game, you have accept the rules.

You’re coming across very badly, with statements like this.

Have a little think about why some positive discrimination might take place for children living in economically deprived circumstances.

Come on. I’m sure you can work it out. Don’t let disappointment for your son turn you into a person who doesn’t want all children to achieve.

I agree with the pp places, but I would have to question on this year's results how someone scoring (for example) 22 points less than the standard lowest score would get onin the school. Of course some will be higher and some will have exceeded the entry score. I'm wondering how much difference in terms of score it makes. For example, birth month makes a small difference so someone born for example in March would get a standardised score 2 or 3 points higher than a September born. Being on pupil premium may effectively give a child the equivalent of 22 points and I wonder how fair that is to them. But I don't know the statistics its based on and as you may have gathered its an unheard of high entry score this year.

I think the point is @OUB1974 that with the right support, which this school is able to provide, the boy on full PP achieving 220 (or 229 is the lowest score mentioned thus far) is more than innately capable of matching his peers. This is similar to contextual offers for uni which are maybe a grade below “regular” offers but still require good ability.

The PP places are ranked and the PP boys are within the ability window for the school.

ETA and of course they can’t change the criteria post test even if they wanted to. They can’t say “oh it’s been a higher scoring year than usual so let’s make the PP cut off 230 not 220”

@SheilaFentiman In Bucks the fsm grammar pass mark is lower than the standard 121 pass mark required. Around 115 minimum I think. Different system but well used by very bright parents who don’t need to work much!

Noted.

ETA oops early post - I think it’s similar but less explicit in this school with the effective cut off at 220 for PP, but the places are max 20, don’t know if that’s true in Bucks.

To reassure you, the admissions system is blind. It takes no account of which school you prioritised except for if more than one school can offer a place, in which case you get the school you placed highest on your form.

It's a giant sorting machine.

• Each admitting authority gets a list of applicants and it ranks them against the admissions criteria.
• Position 1 at school A is applicant 'FM'. If 'FM' out school A first on their CAF, they get offered the school and that place is gone.
• If 'FM' put school B on their CAF in first place, and school B can accept them, they get offered school B and school A takes them off the list, so everyone on school A's list gets shuffled up.

This process goes on and on.

Eventually, all the places available at all the schools will be filled with the applicants who were

a)highest in the admissions criteria for that school and placed them highest on their CAF,
then
b) highest in the admissions criteria (compared with other applicants), their highest school couldn't take them but this school was high on their CAF and could take them
c) highest in the admissions criteria (compared with other applicants), their other schools on the CAF couldn't take them but this school is on their CAF and could
d) highest in the admissions criteria (compared with other applicants), the applicant didn't put them on their CAF but they have spaces spare.

In other words, their ranking on the admissions criteria trumps all else. It's only when there is more than one school that can take them that preference (not choice) comes into it.

I say this often... I live in darkest East Kent, where there is an excess of grammar places. There are also no real comprehensives.

The result of this is lots of successful non-qual appeals. Which, understandably, the high schools (secondary moderns) get annoyed about. There are further intakes in Year 8 and 8.

I also want to add, use of PP is a blunt tool. But it does help level the (very uneven) playing field somewhat.

I went to Grammar school in the 1970s, was from what would be considered a poor family, but we were always borrowing books from the local library and there was always books in the school library that could be borrowed and taken home to read. My parents wouldn't have been able to afford a tutor back then, but I knew several children from the council estate where I lived who passed the 11+ and weren't tutored.

As I said earlier in this thread my eldest daughter who is early 30s failed one of the papers, scored very highly on another one without any tutoring. Even then 20 years ago I think there was only 1 or 2 children at her school whose parents paid for private tutoring. I would say therefore in the last 15 years that tutoring has become the norm now.

I can't see the point of grammar schools now.

Against our expectations, DC1 also didn’t make it into the grammar school. I was gutted at the time because I knew it was wrong. I did stay positive though because I knew DC1 was motivated and would benefit from being a big fish.

DC1 went to a large comprehensive - with no primary friends - was very happy and did very well. They came out of there with 4 x Astar at A-Level and a place at a top uni (where they also did exceptionally well).

So, as others have said, try to put the disappointment behind you and look for the good in the situation. A motivated child will do well in any decent school.

Are there any local children’s orchestras your DC could join?

Perhaps there are opportunities at the new school that the grammar doesn’t have? Clubs, sports etc.

You are being rather mysterious about the medical condition. Are you worried to say what it is because it is a stretch to suggest that it would have affected your son’s performance in the exam?