Maths streaming - should I push for my son to move up a set

[boinoo]

I just need to check in with other parents (and hopefully teachers) who can advise.

My son is in year 8 in a mixed comp. He's a quiet kid but I get in impression he contributes to lessons and is doing ok academically. He was placed in bottom set for maths which came as a surprise because he is bright, just quiet. I mentioned it to the teacher at last years parents evening but she wasn't keen to move him up. He got one of the highest score in their term test at 83% and we are fortunate enough to have a weekly tutor too. Two children with worse grades have been moved up and he's been told he has to stay in that set.

Parents evening is coming up. Should I ask the teacher to move him up a set?

@boinoo - CAT4 is typically used by teachers to work out what style of teaching can suit certain kids (eg visual aids) but our tutors always shared if requested. It can be helpful if let’s say there is a particular verbal reasoning bias or the opposite. Or something that contradicts the KS2 SATS profile.
It can also help you work out where your DCs strengths are long term and what subjects may be easier at both GCSE and A level. For example, long term Maths and Chemistry and Architecture really can be easier for those who can innately do non verbal reasoning. From what you said so far, your DS may have stronger verbal reasoning skills. That does not mean he should not do his best to do well in his Maths GCSE, but unless he is likely to require really strong Maths long term to support eg a passion for Physics, it might be worth you putting the Maths set question into some wider perspective. He may do better doing Combined Science and more humanities at GCSE. It can be helpful for that kind of stuff.
When they do questionnaire later on what jobs may suit them, it usually brings back all the CAT4 stuff too. We all need to do English and Maths GCSEs but education as a whole is a lot easier if we find the real strengths and passions of the DC in question quite early on and learn to celebrate that.

Thanks very much, that's really informative. I will have a look for that result but it sounds like I may need to request it from his primary school? I'm not sure why I'm drawing such a blank on it.

If nothing else, it would be interesting to see his result now it has been explained to me!

Thanks very much. He isn't a fan of this teacher to be fair but I think she's quite dismissive and her focus is naturally on the children who need the extra help. He could certainly do with a challenge but I do worry about his confidence. Then again, if I don't advocate for him, we will never know! Thanks for sharing

Great points. I do need to make a little list of questions and points just to make sure I'm getting all the information correct. Fingers crossed.

Thanks very much for a teacher's perspective. It helps to ease my worries about broaching the subject. I just want to give him as many opportunities as I can and I hate the thought of him being held back or missed. I'm sure we will get there in the end!

Yes, he says there's a lot of waiting time while the teacher helps other children. All good but I have to believe him when he says even he wants a challenge (and he is all about the easy life 😅).

Glad to hear a lovely story about kids thriving. Easy to underestimate them. Very interesting, thanks

@BrownTroutBluesAgain thanks, I will add that question to the list. It may well be a class size issue but who knows

It is quite a significant difference in results between English and Maths - is he in top set English and related subjects? If not, it's likely they've set based upon the average scaled score of the two (matches the DfE measures), but if he is, they've identified that difference as meaning he needed a more secure grounding in Maths.

The difficulty is that it's very likely determining his groups for Sciences, Technology and suchlike as well - they are often very restrictive in terms of class numbers, and if somebody really needs to come down a set, you then need to be able to do it without leaving 3 children with no access to things like a lab place, a kitchen station or a computer - the shuffling around of anything up to 15 children in each set can be a logistical nightmare - it may be that cohort changes or further moves free up a place for him after Easter, for example (people generally start moving house from then on, whereas this time of year tends to be very static).

Asking the class sizes for each could give you an idea whether this is a consideration - classes of 30 each could be teachable, but you might not even have space for 16 desks in each classroom he could conceivably ever be in (it wouldn't be for just one room, as that means the first room change results in somebody not having a chair).

And you may be also getting one of the most experienced teachers in the current set, which can only benefit the kids in the class.

Have a chat, maybe talk to the Head of Maths, see what they say.

@boinoo ,

‘Thanks very much for a teacher's perspective. It helps to ease my worries about broaching the subject. I just want to give him as many opportunities as I can and I hate the thought of him being held back or missed. I'm sure we will get there in the end!’

It’s a pleasure and I hope it helps!

Just to clarify a couple of things. We did two main settings a year, a big one at the end of the year and a smaller one at the end of the Christmas term. We based these on exams they set at the end of the terms and topic tests, with more weight being given to the exams. This is because some people are really good at revising a small amount of material but, ultimately, maths is about understanding and putting it all together.

It always has to be evidence based though, with a small room for discretion (say someone wrote one dreadful exam). For every pupil that moves up, another has to move down (well, within certain parameters) and it has to both be fair and be seen to be fair.

From what you say, though, your child has a good case based on results, so it is well worth a discussion.

If he's doing well with his current teacher definitely not! I got put up to top set ... teacher was useless and I did poorly. Id have been fine if they had left me where I was.

Yes I would call and speak to the teacher before parents evening.

I turned up to parents evening for my daughter and one subject teacher had no clue who she was. He had taught her for months. She was quiet and well behaved in class and he admitted to me at the next parents evening that he had missed how good she was at the subject. I liked his honesty.

He ended up as one of her favourite teachers and she did very well at the subject. But I am not sure all teachers would admit this.

Ask the teacher about why he is staying in the lower set. It isn't always about the test score, it can be about a child responding to a particular teacher.

It can also be about not moving a child in to class with dragon of a teacher.

When I was at school there were 6 sets and the bottom was generally the well behaved kids who struggled with the work. The next couple of sets were the badly behaved kids who either struggled with the work or didn’t want to do it. So if your son’s school only has 3 sets it’s possible that the bottom one is for those who work hard but struggle, the middle is full of the kids who don’t work hard whether they can do the work or not so don’t do all that well, and the top set will be the highest achievers who probably also work hard. If that’s the case the teacher might think that your son might hate it in the middle set if it’s full of chatty kids who aren’t keen on doing the work. Better for him to stay in a set where he can be near or at the top and also not be distracted.