Maths streaming - should I push for my son to move up a set

[boinoo]

I just need to check in with other parents (and hopefully teachers) who can advise.

My son is in year 8 in a mixed comp. He's a quiet kid but I get in impression he contributes to lessons and is doing ok academically. He was placed in bottom set for maths which came as a surprise because he is bright, just quiet. I mentioned it to the teacher at last years parents evening but she wasn't keen to move him up. He got one of the highest score in their term test at 83% and we are fortunate enough to have a weekly tutor too. Two children with worse grades have been moved up and he's been told he has to stay in that set.

Parents evening is coming up. Should I ask the teacher to move him up a set?

3

I dont understand this question? It's not unusual to have tutors for subjects. We've used them for a mix of reasons. Sometimes to help a struggling child, other times for a child to catch up if they have missed lessons due to ill health, in some cases to help a child who really loves an excels in a subject and doesn't feel stretched at school.

Oh wow it must be quite a small school? I think my children's school has something like 6 or 8 different sets.

If there are only three sets then I can see why there isn't much movement between them. I would definitely ask why your child hasn't been moved as the answer may be illuminating.

I never heard of school setting being a joint decision between a child's outside tutor/parents and the teachers when mine were at school. It was based on test results at school.

Did your DS pass his KS2 maths? Does the bottom set in his school do functional maths GCSE or higher paper too? There is always a question mark over those aiming for a 4 or 5 what is better for them. The higher tier maths paper at GCSE can be quite intimidating as so many questions they can’t answer.

It might be that the set above is full and there is no one to move down? I also think it's difficult to say whether other children who have been moved up are actually doing worse in the subject, unless you are the teacher - presumably this is just what your son has reported to you?

I definitely flagged it when my son was put in the wrong set starting at secondary. He was put in set two for science and it made no sense as he was already teaching himself GCSE science for fun (this was in the pandemic).

School did listen and ever since he has flown along at the top of the top set for everything -predicted straight 9s

There should always be a dialogue

Do you remember what he got in his KS2 SATS? If he got 100+ he probably shouldn’t be in bottom set (unless it’s a grammar school perhaps).

It can be very difficult for teachers to accurately assess how well children are doing in a class of 30 especially if they’re just quietly getting on. 83% sounds like a good score, but did the middle/upper set do a harder test?

I definitely think you should have a conversation with the teacher at parents evening. You can’t demand anything, but you can ask politely and ask what their reasoning is.

I think the thing with the higher sets is that they move at a faster pace, children with a quicker working memory who can pick up what is being demonstrated to them in maths at faster pace tend to be in the higher sets. The lack of confidence maybe a problem if he's expected to answer questions on the spot or he doesn't feel like he's keeping up with the class.
I wouldn't listen to anything about anyone else's grades as there not relevant. Just ask his teachers to explain to you why they feel he shouldn't be moved up.

Yes absolutely ask, it’s great that you’re so engaged with his learning. I’m a teacher and always value parental opinion. I have also got 2 kids at uni and questioned some of the decisions made when they were at school and was listened to.

Yes. No problem with asking them about it. It was the idea that setting should be based on a collective assessment by the tutor/parents/school that i was responding to. If that was the case outside tutors and parents would be able to force their child into the top set when this wasn't appropriate. The final decision has to rest with the school who sees the performance of all the children.

Great to get a teachers opinion, thank you.

Pace is a worry but think for some children that's a good thing because it encourages focus. If successful, it could grow confidence but know what you mean if it's a struggle.

I don't remember tbh but good point.

Yes only what he has told me. Parents evening hasn't happened yet.

I agree this is relevant as it's used to measure their progress so it does matter to the school. Can you not remember if he got over the expected standard? 100. Does your son not remember?

Speak to the teacher respectfully but ultimately you have to trust their judgement and that they know what they are doing, surely? My daughters school has six “top sets” I think to appease parents, in reality I’m sure it’s just a name and they set within them!

I'd definitely question them on the decision - it may be the right one but also it might not.
My thinking on this would be

• could he keep up with the work in the next set up?
• will he feel more confident at the top of the bottom set or near the bottom of the next set up?
• what's the behavior like in each of theses sets? (Bottom set can be a zoo)
• is bottom set a nurture group and does that support him?
• what GCSE paper are they working towards? (Foundation is limiting but less stressful - he's in Y8 now so it doesn't matter that much but come Y9 or 10 it would be good to be in the set that's the right fit in this regard, and worth knowing that it's a lot easier to move down than up with this)

One to one tutoring is very different from top set maths. He has time to work through it with a tutor, he will have to keep up with the class in a higher set. I would speak to them and ask what the reason is rather than pushing for a move. It might be that they think it's too much.

My DGD did get moved up from bottom set to middle set maths. She had struggled but I at the start of year 10, she started to find classes easy.

The maths teacher contacted my DD and said they would move her and see how it went. She was quite nervous about it but she is doing well.

Maybe get him through year 8, with some solid work, where he gains confidence and bottom set maths is clearly too easy for him. The teacher should pick it up. But it really is worth the effort in order to get him moved up.

What sort of kids are in the bottom set?

In DS’s school they don’t stream any subjects which is hopeless as every class will have some percentage of disruptive kids in it. DS is stuck with a lot of disruptive kids in most of his classes and the teachers spend most of the lessons firefighting just to keep control of the classroom.

Presumably also, the bottom set will be taught at a slower pace and given lower level work?

However, if your DS has a Maths tutor who can take him through the curriculum, then perhaps it doesn’t matter too much what set he’s in?

maths teacher

setting in year 7 is usually based on the ks2 sats. Then teachers adjust if a child is clearly in the wrong place.

year 8 groups are then often based on an end of year 7 exam.

go back and check what he got in his ks2 sats (did he do them? We always got a few kids who fit various reasons hadn’t done them). How did his end of year 7 exam go?

if there are three sets then it’s likely these are quite big groups.

speak to the teacher and ask what he needs to do to move up. You say he got “one of” the highest marks in the most recent test - it’s quite likely that in order to do a move he needs to be visibly top of the group.

I think sometimes we forgot that is a difference between asking and opening a dialogue on something and demanding and we tend to lump it all under demanding as something we shouldn’t do.

Asking and opening a dialogue about where he is and how best to support him is absolutely fine

It’s better to be in a higher set than lower set from my experience. Could it be that it’s convenient for teacher to keep your quiet child in a lower set to offset the behavior in the group. Teachers do that sometimes to make their life easier.

@aCatCalledFawkes I don't think he is ready for top set but middle set could be good for him. I will speak to the teacher.