Would you start attending church to get your child into a C of E secondary?

[crymyeyesviolete]

If your other local options were dire?

I think that’s a real shame, but it’s not an argument for getting rid of church schools. It could be an argument for more outreach efforts from churches, so that people of all economic backgrounds feel comfortable to attend. Some are better than others in this regard.

Not all do, and they aren't required to.
Faith schools are permitted to do:
LAC/Adopted of faith
Others of faith
LAC/Adopted not of faith
Others not of faith.

I’ve not seen that locally at all, either for primary or secondary (been through both).

I that CofE or Catholic?

What are the admissions criteria? Would starting going to church now fit the bill? Very popular church schools want life long church going and extras like being part of the choir, whilst others have a number of non denominational places based on a 'usual' admissions criteria and don't require church going at all. I have taught in lots of primary church schools and a large proportion of the children do not go to church regularly, so do not be concerned about hypocracy. But there is no point starting going to church if anything less than life-long dedication to the church doesn't get you a place.

Catholic school localish to me 2025-26 Admissions Policy incl amendment July 2025_1752414675.pdf

@BunfightBetty they are church schools FUNDED BY EVERYONE'S TAXES FFS!!

Would you accept a hospital that prioritises patients of a certain faith because a church lets it use its land? Even if the hospital is paid for by everyone's taxes?

Yes or no? Be honest! This is an abomination which would be rightly unconstitutional in many parts of the world.

Discriminate on faith with YOUR money, not with mine. Shame on you.

You can argue that a great many taxpayers are losing out by others having preferential access to a third of state funded schools.

100% of operating costs and at least 90% of capital (including maintenance) costs are met by the state. Parental contributions make up some of the last 10% of capital contributions because very often the church declines to pay and it has to come out of school funds.

I don't want any state-funded religious discrimination or segregation. I definitely don't want it in the education system.

I attended a church to get Dc into primary school. At the time there was a dearth of local places at decent schools. We did attend church but not the local one and not regularly enough. I would do it again for secondary for a good school. I don’t particularly like selection by church attendance but you have to work within the system you are in - complaining it isn’t right won’t change where your kid can get in.

The parents at the primary school were largely in two categories - the ones for whom Christianity was core to their families, and the vaguely Christian ones who were sufficiently organised to forward plan years out, committed and dedicated to their kids being at this school that they were willing to spend their Sundays in church for the two years before admissions deadlines. I found this selected socially but not economically as much - some were from low earner families but with a laser like focus on education.

Have you read the Sutton Trust report I linked?

No. We are Christians and involved with church but we avoided the outstanding faith school for our local ‘requires improvement’ school as we believe education should be secular. Half of the primary school class did the same, others played the system for the faith school or did manoeuvres for the other high schools in the town. I’m happy with the education my kids received and happier still with their overall school experience. The school they went to was much more diverse, smaller, my kids were lucky to be educated with immigrant children who were a fantastic influence as they invariably valued education and they set a fantastic example.

There are many reasons why low income families find church attendance harder.
Churches often have midweek services, but Sunday schools are almost always on Sunday mornings. That means if you do shift work or eg retail (ie not a nice 9-5 middle class office job) you can't get your child there every Sunday.
If you don't own your own home or live in insecure housing, you're likely to move house or even towns more frequently. That makes it harder to attend church regularly for the three years you need near me.
If English is your second language or you have learning disabilities, you may not be aware of the requirements until too late.
If you have physical or mental health problems, you're more likely to live in poverty, and no, church schools do not accept this as a reason for low attendance.
Yes, of course there are many low income families who attend church regularly. But as a group, middle class families find this hoop easier to jump through.

Religious schools also effectively racially segregate. My kids currently go to a school with Muslim, Christian, atheist, Jewish kids. They learn about halal and kosher from choosing sweets to go into their party bags and Eid from talking to their friends. They understand that 'Muslim' means Mohammed from school not a bogeyman.
Next year, when my eldest goes to secondary, the Catholic kids will go to one school, the Anglicans another, the Jewish kids to a third and the Muslims and atheists wherever they can get into. They'll all be poorer as a result.

Catholic here so no.

Shame on you.

Shame on me?! 😂 Hilarious level of hyperbole and aggression for a disagreement over school provision. Do you usually struggle to debate with courtesy?

I feel not a jot of shame for my opinion. I’m quite happy with my stance. But you carry on flinging insults if it floats your boat.

Faith schools do not cost the taxpayer any more money than a non-faith school.

Your attempt at an analogy is silly, as education and healthcare are different. An education rooted in, for example, Christianity, is different to a secular education, as everything flows from, and is underpinned by, the faith. Not at all the same for healthcare.

I can’t speak for other religions, but anybody and everybody is welcome at a C of E church.

Want your kids to go to a church school? Nobody will stop you going to church to qualify for that. Don’t want your kids to go to a church school? Lots of other options.

@envbeckyc you obviously don’t live rurally where there is no choice of school and if you have to go to church to secure a place you just do it. Or do you think non-Christians should not be allowed to live in the country? It sounds like you are arguing that rural areas which overwhelmingly have only CofE schools should be segregated for Anglicans only - do you think that Catholics, Jews, Methodists just move out? Fuck that.

Absolutely! Faith schools shouldn’t exist in this country if you ask me…and I object to taxpayers paying towards a school that they have less of a chance at going to just because they aren’t stupid enough to worship some imaginary sky fairy. Shite rules are made to be broken!

We are Christian. My dc went to a c of e primary school but that was mainly because it was the closest school. Most of the children who went to that school weren't C of E, they were the children who lived in the catchment area. The school had several governors who were Christian and the church encouraged their members to volunteer at the school. The school was fairly average compared with the other local primary schools.

Where I live the only other options to CofE 🏫 at infants and juniors are home ed or the local independent school (which is strict Catholic and £8,000 per term). That’s not ‘lots of other options’.

You’re wrong about church schools not accepting illness as a reason for lower attendance, as often they do, and the vicar can take it into account when confirming your attendance. Plus many church schools require only fortnightly attendance, not weekly. And it doesn’t have to be on a Sunday, it can be midweek.

If you move church or area during the qualifying period you just need to ask the vicar from the first church to tell the vicar at the second church that you have been attending. They’re used to doing this, you won’t be the first.

But presumably all kids get in to the CofE school if it’s the only state option?

They do now as it is undersubscribed due to the demographic crash and has been for a couple of years. This was not the case 10 years ago when my DC were going and parents from the local town (10 miles away) who fancied a naice village school were attending church to jump the queue. So all the villagers were forced to do the same, regardless of their faith or lack thereof.

@BunfightBetty that education is a fundamental service to be provided by the state, and that the state should not discriminate based on religion, is a fundamental value of mine and of a big part of the Western world, where the abomination which exists here would rightly be unconstitutional.

Everyone pays for state schools, but abiut a third of those discriminate based on religion.

This is an undeniable fact.

You refuse to answer on the comparison vs hospitals. So I can only infer that deep down you understand that discrimination is wrong but don't want to admit it.

How much education is rooted in religious values is debatable. Do Christian schools teach a different maths literature etc? Oh, wait, maybe they teach kindness... As opposed to what? Do you think non faith schools teach how to rape and steal?

Regardless, that is a moot point.

Only morally bankrupt despicable individuals welcome discrimination based on religion. You are one such person so, no, I will not calm down. Again, shame on you.

The point is not whether the state pays more for a faith school than for a non faith school. The point is that everyone's taxes pay for a fundamental service which is not open to all but discriminates based on religion.

Some faith schools require baptism.
And no, there aren't always plenty of other options. Not always. It varies hugely.

@BunfightBetty also no, not everything flows from the faith. Schools must teach British values, even when they clash with the backward values of certain religions, like opposition to same sex marriage.
Schools cnsnot teach creationism. Etc

@BunfightBetty You're right, I shouldn't have implied all church schools do this. But if I want my children to go to my local school, they would have to attend Anglican church three or four times a month and both my closest Anglican schools are explicit that ill health will not be accepted as a reason for non attendance. A Methodist family who attend church every week will not get a place at my local school because of the number of atheist parents who attend weekly because they believe it's the only way to get their child into a decent school.
Every practising Christian I know in Liverpool says this system makes it harder to build functioning faith communities. Every atheist family would rather be doing something else with their Sundays. Yet here we are.