Would you start attending church to get your child into a C of E secondary?

[crymyeyesviolete]

If your other local options were dire?

I presume the rationale is that all schools should be providing a good standard of education, and all that is different about this school is the distinctive Catholic part of it, and being able to have that is something that matters more for Catholics than non-Catholics. The intention wasn't to sentence the non-Catholic LAC children to a rubbish school, just to another equally-good-but-not-Catholic school.

Of course, the reality doesn't work like that!

100%

No!

Firstly it’s cheating someone who is religious out of a school place.

Secondly as a Humanist I do not agree with religious schools

Finally you could always move house, or as a parent become a governor or join a PTA to improve the school your child goes to!

Yes. And I say that as a practising Jew. I’d attend but I wouldn’t pray. I don’t know what the requirement would be. 2 years is a lot though might be too much. My DS’s Jewish school only required him to go 8 times.

It's insane to suggest moving away from where you live just because the school has a daft admissions policy. My family have lived in our village for at least 300 years - should we really move away because the village school started with this church attendance nonsense in the 2000s? The school that my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents attended (none of them remotely religious)? And where would we move to - literally every school in this part of the country is CofE. Sod that.

If you don’t believe in the religion but fake it to get what you want, you are setting a terrible example to your child!

I live in a school catchment black hole… so no chance of sending my daughter to the nearest school, which is Ofsted good!

We instead sent her to a specialist school in inner city Birmingham because at the time that was best option- with a long train journey!

Last year we put her on an inter year transfer list for a place we were out of catchment for when we made our original application and she was offered a place to start within a week. When we applied for Year 7 we were 18 places back on the waiting list from being offered a place.

I was raised as a Catholic and could have faked still being a Catholic to get them into a school in the local area, but I would have been teaching my children that it’s ok to lie to manipulate people to get what you want, which in my option is terrible parenting!

Many of our friends moved or rented houses to be next to our nearest school in year 5 to bag a place at the nearest school, but it would have disadvantaged our youngest daughter who would need to walk for 40 minutes to school, or it would be a 45 minute drive because of traffic.

As a Parent you need to show integrity and honesty!

@envbeckyc going to church does not require you to fake a religion. You can go regularly to services as a proud atheist so long as you're respectful. Many people go because of tradition, community, or to enjoy the music. It is a good learning experience for a child so long as you're honest about your reasons for going.

It's a complete myth that you need to pretend to be religious to get a foundation place.

If you are honest enough to tell your children that you don’t believe in the mumbo jumbo of god, and that it’s just to secure a better school place, and that they need to go along with it… that’s not really acting with honesty or integrity!

You also need to model not cutting off your nose to spite your face, and being strategic to make your way forward in life.

You may very well decide it's not a good example to set your child, but plenty of other parents will do the opposite, and their child will then have an advantage over yours.

What's more important - your principles or your child's life chances?

It's not always as clear cut as you say and of course depends what you value most highly, but in a shit system not of the parents making, it's fair game IMO for the parent to do what's best for their child. If that involves pretence, that's on those who set up the system to encourage that, rather than the parents caught up in said system without other options. If there are no other good options, then expect parents to get involved in the pretence.

No because I know of church going families who didn't get places despite always attendingtheir local church....while those who pretended to become Christian and went to the local cathedral for 2 years did get a place.

I was strategic, my Daughter did commute by train, but had a good education for two years, them transferred in time for Year 9.

Strategic is setting a good example to your children and teaching them to be honest and to stand by their principles!

Making them suffer church and asking them to go along with religious doctrine that no one in our house believes in would be ridiculous!

As I stated… if it was such a huge issue we could have sold our house and moved! We played the long game, with honesty! It worked out!

As for other parents… it’s their decision to teach their children to either be dishonest or deceitful if they choose… but no doubt if they complain about their children doing the same when they are older… the kids will have every right to call them out about their own dishonesty!

As a Parent you reap what you sow…. As the saying goes!

Oh and my youngest Daughter is guaranteed a place at the more local school now… as they have a sibling priority rule, which takes precedence over distance!

100% yes

Yes. If private wasn’t an option then I wouldn’t hesitate.

Great that you had another choice, but not everybody does, and you sound pretty judgemental of other parents who don’t have your options.

And also, the world isn’t such a black and white straightforward place as you seem to think. What happens if somebody asks your kids if they like their new hair and they don’t? Do you teach then to be brutally honest at all times, no matter how much they might hurt the other person? Or do you teach rhem to balance honesty with empathy and consideration for others?

What about people at work who hate their job, but have to perform passion for it and act as if they love it and are enthusiastic about the company? Should they be brutally honest and go around with a long face, complaining about how soul-destroying it is to be a corporate drone? What would you advise your kids about that?

Why not? It's a good opportunity to explain to them that the school admissions system is just the product of history and wouldn't be set up this way if it was designed from scratch.

As we're talking about secondary schools, the child in question presumably gets some say in the matter and is motivated to attend.

Back in 1991, I chose an RC secondary school, even though I wasn't a Catholic. It was a formative experience and helped me to develop my critical thinking skills.

Yes this. There are lots of Muslim girls at my daughter's Catholic school. Other religions trump no religion in most faith schools. In my opinion most religions share the same basic ideals and beliefs.

In fairness, I wouldn't be faking anything. The admissions policy says you need to attend church, it doesn't say anything about what beliefs you have to hold.

And moving house is a huge expense! It's not that simple.

Look up the admission policy of the school in question. The admission policy of many Christian schools require baptism + church attendance.

Many CE schools don't require baptism. My local primary didn't. The vicar of the attached church (who was a governor at the school) was happy to have atheists at his services but didn't want them baptising their child to secure a place at the school - that would involve lying.

Absolutely- I would do anything to help my kids get a good education. The system is wrong. However I would say 75% of attendees at this church are only there to get the kids into the school. Once they are in they won’t be seen again.

If it was the best school then I’d consider it
not sure morally how okay that is

I do attend church, am active in my church and it bothers me people do this which jeopardises my DD getting a spot.

On the other hand, I welcome people coming to church and hope that the Lord works on them.

In the same vein, I hope that your child will benefit from having a more balanced intake at their school. It will help them learn to understand different viewpoints.

Agreed. I think it’s good if children of atheists attend church schools - they can hear the other point of view and make their own decisions about whether or not they believe.