Would you start attending church to get your child into a C of E secondary?

[crymyeyesviolete]

If your other local options were dire?

One of the best schools local to me is a CofE school. It has a relatively large catchment area, and spreads across several villages, where the population isn't particularly diverse.

Allocation based on faith is 4th on the list, with resident in catchment, sibling priority, looked after children being 1st, 2nd and 3rd. In reality the majority of places are allocated children in the first three categories.

I attend the church which is attached to this school - its actually the closest church to us, but we are not within catchment for the school. Our vicar is very wise to the concept of "on your knees to save on fees" and rightly so.

There's a Catholic school also in our town, and again, allocation of places is the same as above. Because of the location of the school, this is a very ethnically diverse school (town vs rural village)

The school we are in catchment for, is dreadful both in terms of attainment and behaviour issues, so will we apply to an oversubscribed CofE school which aligns with our faith over a mega-school with issues? Absolutely.

PS I don't judge people who attend church just to qualify for a school place. You play the hand you're dealt.

I judge and despise those who oppose any change. Like the lobbyists who tried, but luckily failed, to remove the 50% cap on faith based admission discrimination for new faith schools.

No and the church and religions should keep out of education if upu want an inclusive world.

I don't see anything wrong with it. They only want outward conformance not to look into people's hearts.

All the religious schools in our areas accept none religious pupils so it wouldn't be necessary x

If that was my best option then I’m afraid I would. When ds was that age I still had some Christian remnants in me anyway, I attended pretty regularly when he was at primary so it wouldn’t have been very out of character to go. But tbh I would go now if I had a grandchild I somehow needed to front up for, and I’m the stoniest of atheists these days.

It’s not something that affects us where we are, but yes I would if it was the only way to get my kids in to a decent school.

The school system needs an overhaul. I’d like to abolish religious state schools. But we are where we are and my top priority is my kids and their futures.

No way. I was also forced to attend sunday school as a kid and absolutely hated it.

I would rather try and move house.

No

I'm a Christian, and my children are christened. But we are not CofE and I don't agree with state funded church schools, whatever the religion or denomination.

No way. If I had to sit listening to religious claptrap, I'd be ready to actively break a few of their commandments by the end of it. Faith based schools have no place in modern society.

No.
I hate church schools. If they were actually serving their faith community, I would hate them less, but they're also serving those families who are willing to lie for three years to get their kid into school.
They discriminate against families with another religion who aren't willing to give it up. Even against practising Christians. In Liverpool if you're a Methodist or Baptist who attends church every week for three years you won't get a place in our local Anglican school.
Against families who do shift work or work retail (ie anyone who doesn't have a nice 9-5 office job). Yes, they will accept mid week church services but family services are on Sunday and our local Anglican schools all count child attendance too.
Against anyone who doesn't have a stable enough lifestyle to live close to the same church for three years.
Against anyone with long term mental or physical health problems (our local schools are explicit that they don't accept this as an excuse) or children living eg in families with addiction
Against anyone who doesn't have the English or cultural capital to understand the system until it's too late.
It's not even about religion. All the actual Christians I know in Liverpool hate this too because it's impossible to build a loving worshipping community when people show up for three years, sit resentfully on their phones, don't bother to join the flower, tea, Sunday school rota, don't help out with the any of the work involved in maintaining the building etc, but still expect someone to provide Sunday school for their kids, then leave as soon as they have an attendance certificate.
Schools love it though because they get a demographic of kids from stable families with parents invested in their education.
We chose not to do this because we hate it so much. I'm now terrified my kid is going to be fucked over because of it (waiting to see if he's got a place in Liverpool's only grammar).

I did. Had to go twice a month for 2 years and sign a register.
Did I feel good about doing it? No.
I "rationalised" it to myself as some people move house to get the best school choice for their child, some tutor for entrance exams, some pay a lot of fees.

No . What kind of school would expect that you have to go to church for your child to attend . My children went to a wonderful Catholic school , (we are atheists ), and we didn't have to attend church .

Personally, no, I wouldn’t do that.

However, people do far worse things. In my area, for example, some parents lie on their grammar school applications by providing false residential addresses. They pretend to live within the catchment area to increase their chances of getting a place. That’s essentially fraud. Some got caught recently
https://www.leigh-on-sea.com/blog/detail/southend-on-sea-city-council-stops-294-000-school-admissions-fraud-in-crackdown-on-false-applications.html

Yes, and I have a good friend who did do that. A church christening and family church service once a month is small price for a good school within walking distance!

I also have a friend who seriously considered christening her kids in a Catholic Church (their Dad was raised catholic), just so they could go to an excellent catholic school

Yes, my ds1 would have got into his primary school in the "other Christians who aren't C of E" category. Although as it happens there were only 16 children in his year group because they were one of the few schools in the area that didn't have wrap around care. Now it does and there has been a load of new houses been built near it so it's over subscribed now.

There are stacks of Muslim schools that will never admit non Muslims, too…

Of course. Entry by faith is abhorrent and it’s paid for by taxpayers so just jump the hurdles and play the system the easiest way. Take it in turns with DH. Smile sweetly at everyone and sit still for an hour. Ignore the religious claptrap (listen to a podcast). Job done.

Ca 1/3 of state funded schools are faith schools and most of them are allowed to discriminate based on religion.

Again, we would never accept state funded hospitals discriminating patients based on faith

It took a legal challenge against the hypocritical bastards of the London Oratory to conclude that using "contributions to the Church" as a criterion for admission was illegal and discriminatory. It's no coincidence that faith schools are socially selective (look up the Sutton Trust reports) and the Oratory all the more so. Let the children come to me. But only those of rich parents, the poor plebs can bugger off, right?

And let's not forget when Grey Coat Hospital (a school, not a hospital) was forced to apologise because it sent letters asking for donations, implying they were necessary to confirm a school place.

We did. He was also baptised, not solely to get into the RC school, but because we wanted him to be guided by Christianity.
He is now a practicing Christian because he chooses to be. We are from a Catholic background though.

It would depend how religious the school is. For example, i taught in a Catholic school with prayers several times a day, we had to describe evolution as a theory and with a completely straight face say they couldn't write about creationism in the their exams what ever their feelings on it.

But I'm not overly happy about the existence of faith schools. There is a CofE Secondary nearby but they prioritise catchment over faith. (Its LAC, living in catchment, staff, siblings, feeders, CofE, other Christian, Other faiths, everyone else roughly). The school isn't overly religious as its basically the local school... but you can use faith to leapfrog over children.

Our local Catholic school admissions goes
Catholic LAC
Catholic EHCP
Catholic
Non Catholic LAC
Non Catholic EHCP
(Various other criteria)
How is that remotely Christian? Why should a kid dealing with the utter shitness of the care system get lower priority than a child who's been baptised?

Yes I would and I did. However I have a religious belief my children are christened and my church is 1.5 hours drive away.

I attended the local church for 2.5 years and continued for another 3 years until we moved. I have not gelled with any of the new churches so stopped again.

I dont have a issue with people doing so.

Local CofE secondary gets high results and has amazing pastoral care. They take all faiths their criteria is christian faith with regular attendance. And then other faith with regular attendance. Both split into 3 times a month and below 3 times a month

I didn't realise they could do that. I thought it would be
Catholic LAC
Catholic EHCP
Non Catholic LAC
Non Catholic EHCP
Catholic
Non Catholic catchment
Everyone else

I always thought it was LAC then EHCP in every school except schools specifically for students with an EHCP.

Although in my dc school their would be around 10 students in each year who are either LAC or have an EHCP. So admitting those children first makes a difference to those 10 children and the first 10 children on the waiting list but not anyone else.

It's a flawed system that uses state money to discriminate against children based on the religion of their parents, distorts catchments and disproportionately excludes kids from the poorest and most chaotic homes, meaning those kids are over-represented in other schools.

Given the rank hypocrisy of the system and the institutions that benefit from it, I wouldn't have a problem with anyone who worked the system to their advantage.