Child constantly removed from class

[CornwallMamma]

My son is in year 9 at secondary school. Last year he was removed from lessons 50 times during the school year. Mostly he is over talkative, occasionally backchatting teachers. He’s disruptive but not to the point of violence or anything really bad. Mostly he just can’t concentrate in lessons.
the school have assessed ADHD and concluded that actually he is very bright and not ADHD.
Apart from the lesson removals, which are obviously a concern, the schools policy is that is a child is removed from class they then have to sit in ‘reset’ for the next lesson, effectively missing the next lesson too.
Has anyone come across a school that does this?
I’m arguing that it is an incentive, not a punishment, for kids who don’t want to be in school. And it isn’t proper learning!

I wish I knew. Maybe boys and girls should not be in the same school. I went to a girls school and things were different from the boys school. Most would disagree but boys and girls behave and learn differently.

The evidence says girls do better in single sex schools.

Boys do worse.

How do you know what goes on in class? Were you there? Maybe your son should just behave and stop disrupting the learning of other students.

I've spoken to my son about his behaviour and its affect on others. I've given him incentives and punishments. I've spoken to the school many times. I've hauled him into meetings with the school. I'm not sure what else to do now. I will inforce the punishment/incentives but I don't want our home to be a battle ground.

DO NOT believe schools theories about ADHD. We were totally fobbed off by my DD's school.

Her pediatrican assessment scored her at 99% on the scale and the Dr. said she was one of the clearest cases of ADHD (all 3 types) he'd seen.

Schools take the line of least intervention possible. I understand why (lack of funding, resources etc) BUT you can't trust them as the experts in this.

take him and get him assessed for adhd. Thats not something a teacher can do.

How does he respond to your interventions? Can he identify what's going wrong, why he can't manage behaviour?

It's something of a sweeping statement, although you can find evidence that girls perform better in single sex environments.
Would he like to change school?

Thank you for this long post. I really appreciate it.
Many posters are suggesting bad parenting - no one is perfect, especially not me. There is no drug or alcohol abuse in our family, my son is not badly behaved at home, mostly a normal teenager and nothing out of hand. when he does things wrong there are consequenses. I'm not excusing his behaviour in class. I appreciate it is disruptive to other learners, I tell him this. I prompt him constantly to stop and assess what he is doing - that there are consquences. But from home I can say that until I'm blue in the face!
I'm questionning how the school is dealing with it. I actually really just want to get to the bottom of what is going on for him and why he is behaving in this way. The head of year actually said to me during a conversation about what might insentivise him as we get towards gcse's - 'well maybe he will like building or brick laying'. She also said it was an ND profiling tool they use to discard ADHD. There was a meeting with their head of SEN at the school who said his reading age was the 90th centile indicating he was intelligent. I just don't understand how these diagnosis work.

Like you, I'm constantly meeting with the school, consequences at home. I don't want home to be a battle ground and I acutally enjoy a good relationship with my son, where we have lots of conversations about many different topics.

I will take your advise and try for a more comprehensive assessment.

I'm not desputing that they should remove him from class so other children aren't disrupted, but what I don't agree with is that the NEXT lesson is also missed. Also, I'm trying to get to the bottom of what the problem is and I keep being dismissed by the school - Just to be clear, I don't condone the behaviour and there are consequences at home to.

I think anyone unable to cope with mainstream should be moved to a specialist school, who has the resources to deal with these types of issues, sadly the state is crippled by SEN, lack of diagnosis and clear pathways for these kids means they are a burden and their own potential isn’t unlocked. I know many parents who selected private schools to manage this issue.

I've asked the school for an assessment for ND / SEN. I have had meetings with the school, I've asked for honest feedback from the teachers (which was then read to me by the head of year so couldn't see their acutal words), I have asked the school for support. At home I speak to my son all the time about his behaviour, remind him of the affect on others in the class and his teachers. I've given incentives and punishments. I'm not making excuses.

Look on it as being beneficial for the other children whose learning is being constantly disrupted.
The effect on your son is irrelevant, really. It’s self inflected 🤷🏻‍♀️

@CornwallMamma I’m glad it was helpful.

Yes there will always be posters on your kind of thread who think it’s bad parenting, or say that he should ‘just behave’ . Ignore those ones. They don’t have any idea what it’s like.

But there are also plenty of useful and empathetic posts on here from people who understand or who have been through similar. Just focus on those!

For a while and then back to same behaviour in class and I have to think up something else! He can't identify why he behaves like this. He thinks none of his teachers like him (they probably don't to be fair). I think he just hasn't got awareness despite the constant conversations I have with him.

Yes, I've seen a experiments in co-ed schools where they split the boys and girls and both thrived. Anyway, we aren't going to change the school system. Changing school would be very difficult due to where we live but could be worth it.

I wish my daughter’s school would pull children out more often. She finds it almost impossible to learn anything with all the disruption day after day. If you have the resources for a private assessment I’d explore that option. My brother is adhd and medication was life changing for him - he really struggled in school before but it was immeasurably better after getting proper support. The school won’t be able to assess like an actual doctor. Intelligence has nothing to do with neurodiversity - telling you all about his reading ability is not relevant so I’d challenge anything else they said too

Off topic but the first thing I did when I was allowed to was move the girls so they sat together. My PGCE is computer science and I'm sure the uptake is lower for girls because they are used to police the boys.

OP

Sorry but your son sounds like a pain in the arse.

My son is bright and wanted to be removed do he could sit in isolation and work at his own pace- once the school recognised he was not disruptive or rude in isolation but conscientious about completing huge amounts of work using his own imitative it all got better. Now he has challenge in class the behaviour has gone away.

I think the idea behind that strategy is that it gives the other learners a break from the disruptive student. I'm not sure that's a good idea, but we do get a lot of pressure from parents who do not want their child's lessons disrupted. Understandably.

Yes, this is what we're hearing, more and more about behaviour.
I've seen many students improve with well managed medication.

Perhaps it's worth looking into. It could re-set him, possibly. Give him a fresh start.

"none of my teachers like me" is such a strong indicator of failure to engage.
I would agree with other posters about an ADHD assessment. I can usually spot them in a classroom. I have one now whose parents won't address it, or do anything about it. Which is a shame. I would definitely pursue this.

Its actually 100 lessons as the school make any child removed from lesson, miss the next lesson too. He's not too bad at home, we get on well, there are no major issues that i wouldn't expect from a 14 year old. Typical I would say from my own experience of being 14. I would love for the school to be supportive in suggesting strategies, and supporting what i'm saying to him at home - which is explaining the negative impact of his behaviour, giving insentives and punishments. I don't want the home to be a battle ground either!

ADHD is a medical diagnosis and school can’t do it. You can ask GP to refer to CAHMS but you will be waiting year or you can ask GP for right to choose referal or you can pay for a private assessment (around £3.5k and it must meet the NICE guidelines).