Child constantly removed from class

[CornwallMamma]

My son is in year 9 at secondary school. Last year he was removed from lessons 50 times during the school year. Mostly he is over talkative, occasionally backchatting teachers. He’s disruptive but not to the point of violence or anything really bad. Mostly he just can’t concentrate in lessons.
the school have assessed ADHD and concluded that actually he is very bright and not ADHD.
Apart from the lesson removals, which are obviously a concern, the schools policy is that is a child is removed from class they then have to sit in ‘reset’ for the next lesson, effectively missing the next lesson too.
Has anyone come across a school that does this?
I’m arguing that it is an incentive, not a punishment, for kids who don’t want to be in school. And it isn’t proper learning!

Mostly he is over talkative, occasionally backchatting teachers. He’s disruptive but not to the point of violence or anything really bad.

I doubt the other students & staff would agree with your conclusion here.

This ⬆️.
What nonsense that he's too bright to behave! I've taught exceptionally able students who behaved perfectly well.
OP, your child is disrupting the learning of others. What are you doing about it?

Quite! Not "anything really bad"!
I would say it's very bad. Just because he's not violent doesn't mean it's ok. Raise the bar, OP.

"Occasionally backchatting teachers"
He's being a total brat and disturbing the education of all other students, and being completely disrespectful to those trying to educate him.
50 removals in one year is more than one a day.
Why is he being so disrespectful and what are you doing to address it?

My old school, if you were removed from lessons you were out the whole day.

i believe more schools are going down these lines to reduce disruption.

agree with the others that schools cannot diagnose or even screen for adhd so if you suspect this you need to pursue it through the medical route.

Schools have to clamp down on this. Too many learning hours are lost. Many concerned parents are frustrated, and teachers can't get on with their jobs. It's very problematic.

I agree re - the disrespect but there are 190 teaching days in a school year. Still, it suggests a pattern.

Crikey, why didn’t schools think of clamping down?!

There are too few staff these days and class sizes are too big to be able to ‘clamp down’

Well, if your child wants proper learning all he has to do is follow class rules and instructions. I have a more able child (it was “gifted and talented” back then) and they were never sent to reset. Honestly, if you think you can do a better job why don’t you homeschool?

School can screen using Conner’s scales but I know for a fact that 99% of children referred to CAMHS for ADHD are found not to have it and the ones who do still have to follow the rules, with reasonable adjustments.

Can you offer to go into school and sit with him for a day, or threaten to do this if he doesn’t behave? If he has no Sen and is just acting up for clout this should instantly do the trick!

Oh yeah that’s true. Sorry bad maths. I was thinking weeks 🤦‍♀️

Schools can’t do this because the parent would need an enhanced DBS check and it’s humiliating for the child. I have known some parents to make the threat, though.

Agreed.

No. I meant schools are clamping down.
It's becoming an issue and most schools I know, including the one I teach in, have developed a more rigorous behaviour management policy.
It's not class sizes or staff shortages.
It's having a good, clear behaviour policy, consistently applied. Parents on board. Expectations clear.
It works.
"crikey"!

That sounds like a sensible move from the school and will give your ds’s classmates decent respite from his disruptive behaviour. If it happened 50 times in a year I wonder why there wasn’t a more significant sanction like suspension or a managed move?

Who assessed him? If it was the school rather then a professional, I’d want the someone more qualified to assess.

If parents take their child to a GP, they will be told that school should do the ADHD referral. I’ve spent years filling in ADHD referral forms and collecting Conner’s questionnaires knowing full well the child did or didn’t have ADHD. Most NHS assessments use QB tests as well as school observations by a CAMHS professional. It’s a time-consuming holistic assessment and there are waiting lists because of the sheer number of parents who don’t believe their Y8 or Y9 child could possibly be disruptive without an underlying diagnosis.

That’s more of a 150 times a year situation in my experience.

I’m assuming the school got an EP assessment. The EP was able to assess that he very likely has ADHD and she would also have tested his cognitive abilities to establish him being bright.

Most schools can afford 3-6 EP assessments per school year and the EP would definitely involve parents in feedback, so my guess is that there was no EP. Also, EPs aren’t qualified to diagnose ADHD - NICE guidelines say two clinicians.

Looks like you are excusing his poor behaviour. He must be really disruptive to the class. And honestly it isn’t fair on the other children. What are you, as a parent, doing to improve his behaviour?

Torally agree as a mother and a teacher

This! Well behaved daughter now in year 10. Why do the good kids (predominantly girls) have to constantly have their education disrupted by badly behaved (predominantly male) kids??

Good point. It's maddening, isn't it?