Please explain exam boards to me: why so many? Why doesn't the DofE do it?

[ParentOfOne]

This is going to sound a very banal question, but can someone please explain the concept of exam boards?

In many other countries, it's the Department of Education that sets the national curriculum and prepares the national exams (GCSE, A-levels and equivalents).

• Why do we have various boards in the UK?
• Are they all private entities?
• Who pays for them?
• Has it always been like this, or was there a time when it was all done by the Department of Education?
• How meaningful are the differences between exam boards? Eg how much of a difference is there between Edexcel maths and AQA maths?
• Is each secondary school free to choose which exam board to follow?
• How comparable are the programs and the difficulty? Does this create an unfair advantage, if getting a high score is easier with one board than another?
• If there are no meaningful differences, why do we have multiple exam boards?

I have seen that Wikipedia provides some history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examination_boards_in_the_United_Kingdom but doesn't address the main questions

Exam boards will ask questions in different ways.
eg
Biology Alevel comparison
Edexcel requires a lot of essay writing
Cambridge is far less essay and far more factual knowledge small answer questions

DS got a C with Edexcel and an A with Cambridge
basically because his essay writing isn’t great. His knowledge was the same

Schools will pick the board they think fits their students and teaching methods

@Octavia64

Most faith schools are primaries (but secondaries are also larger). So what? I have never said anything about the breakdown between primaries and secondaries. The point was that faith schools discriminate based on religion. You denied that. You said:

These schools are majority primary schools and many of them have admissions policies identical to non faith schools.

Can you prove how many faith schools do not discriminate based on religion? So far you haven't. Your own link confirms my point: page 6:

faith schools are exempt and are permitted to use faithbased oversubscription criteria in order to give higher priority in admissions to children who are members of, or who practise, their faith or denomination irrespective of designation. This exemption only applies if a school is oversubscribed.

So I ask again: will you:

1. back your earlier claim that many faith schools do not discriminate based on religion, or
2. Admit that I was right, you were wrong, and retract, or
3. Ignore me because you cannot admit that your claim was factually false?

@Plantatreetoday Understood, this much wasn't fully clear to me. It's one of the most helpful answers, thank you.

Cambridge, and Edexcel, at least the international versions ARE easier. An IGCSE 9 = a GCSE 7.

Easier to get a higher grade. BUT state schools are banned from doing IGCSEs OR can only do them as an additional option, not in place of UK GCSEs.

I have shown that the majority of faith schools are primaries.

you yourself have posted the rules about faith admissions which are that they are only allowed to be used in the event of oversubscription.

therefore any undersubscribed faith school is not discriminating on faith.

there are many undersubscribed faith schools.

Ahhhh, so your argument is that undersubscribed schools do not discriminate on religion? Considering that most schools are oversubscribed, that's really clutching at straws, but whatever...

It also confirms that your earlier claim that

many of them have admissions policies identical to non faith schools.

is false.

Bollocks . Where is your evidence?

They are written without UK bias and are recognised abroad. They still come under Ofqual and are regulated same way as GCSEs.

I think it's monopsony actually.

Nods sagely as if she knows what that means.

Basically, it's capitalism.

On another level it does allow for diversity in subject offer. One centrally controlled board might limit the number of subjects on offer.

@Piggywaspushed I think oligopoly (few sellers) is a better description.
There are few providers of this service, so competition is very limited, which is why many school heads complain about how much these costs keep increasing above inflation (see previous links).

Note that this doesn't mean the solution would be to have dozens of boards to compete on price.

Monopsony means one buyer (which dictates the terms). But Ofqual oversees the content; if I understand correctly, there is no government oversight on how much these companies can price.

Agree with you twisty
This old claim that IGCSES are easier is bollocks

In subjects such as the sciences and maths for example the curriculum is far more loaded and they set students up for a better chance at A levels
The exams themselves are not easier either

Yep. Maths IGCSE has calculus and GCSE doesn't. It isn't harder/easier, it's just slightly different. The skills level is exactly the same as GCSE.

It's not easier but it's different. English still has coursework so the assessment styles are different. There isn't really any doubt that coursework affords opportunities to shine and to hone the important academic and life skills of reflection, editing and refinement of the written word. It also still has American Lit. I have no doubt at all that IGCSE prepares students better for the assessment style and content of A level courses. Lots of us in state schools would like to be able to do IGCSE.

My Lower Sixth has just gone to a high performing grammar school which admits based on top GCSE results but in reality is actually pretty religious as far as she is concerned! So is that a faith schools or not? It happens to have a majority non Christian demographic but they seem to be perfectly OK with the Christian faith and learning about it at school (RS is a compulsory GCSE) and there is loads of hymn singing. So what does that tell you? Are you opposed to schools who practise the faith or just those who admit based on faith criteria?
Being anti faith in a Christian country with a head of state who is head of the Church of England - is not a neutral position, far from it. We are still a COE country whether you like it or not. And I am not COE by the way. But I am happy to send my DC to a good school that has a strong COE base. I also have friends who are Jewish who attended church just to get into a school that was good. That is what some people are willing to do who want a good education for their kids. Far cheaper than moving house and a lot of Christian principles are based on tolerance and love of thy fellow human anyway so hardly offensive stuff.

We have cousins in the family who are private school and did some iGCSEs but not IGCSE in all subjects, just some it seems, and the more selective private schools never go for the easiest anyway, because they want their cohort well prepared for A level as they are aiming for top grades there. Having different exam boards gives different schools flexibility as to what may suit their own cohorts best.

I teach both. One is massively easier than the other.

The people that get angry about it are the private school parents who don't like to think their children had it easier.

Also surely if iGCSEs are taken internationally by a competitive private school cohort surely the peer group you get compared against is possibly more challenging rather than less? Let’s say if you are competing against kids in private schools in Singapore? And the grades awarded in percentage terms of top grades will be same on the curve? Off to look at Pearson Edexcel as they do both?

🫣 yeh OK you'd better tell Ofqual they don't know what they are doing then!

Where is your actual evidence for your statement that a 7 GCSE is equivalent to a 9 iGCSE

Do you teach in state or independent?

back your earlier claim that many faith schools do not discriminate based on religion

As @Octavia64 says, undersubscribed schools have to admit all applicants. An undersubscribed faith school therefore does not discriminate on faith grounds. Also, just over half of all faith schools are Voluntary Controlled schools. The admission criteria for these schools are set by the local authority, not the school. Whilst some local authorities have used faith-based admission criteria for VC schools, most do not. The statement that many faith schools do not discriminate based on religion is therefore correct.

Turning to your central point about exams, as others have pointed out the current system gives schools a choice. They can choose the curriculum and approach that they believe best suits their pupils, rather than being forced into a one size fits all approach which is what would undoubtedly happen if Ofqual or the DoE set exams. It also keeps exams relatively free from political interference. Ministers cannot determine the curriculum for any GCSE or A-level subject, let alone the exam questions.

You could equally ask why we have over 100 bodies setting exams for degrees rather than the DoE setting exams for all universities.

Competition is healthy. We have to use WHEC only and on times it is shit. Changes to all subjects without proper consultation has been terrible.

I do not believe that the most competitive private schools would sign up to easier iGCSEs because A levels are all the same so they would be shooting their own cohort in the foot, because they get judged most on their A level results. There are no easier A levels. So I suspect the GCSEs and iGCSEs are largely the same in terms of difficulty level. Perhaps some oddities with eg English language, but again, I would expect an English selective private school to pick a challenging board and do both English lit and English language. Just like grammar schools pick the more challenging stuff as it is good preparation for A level, hence the top maths sets are encouraged to do a Further Maths GCSE, sometimes even Ad Maths which is pretty challenging. I think the only way to “game” the system now is to do fewer GCSEs and do better in the fewer that you do than doing extra ones on top. Hence the number of kids doing more than 11 GCSEs has really gone down, not least because of clashes. When there were fewer exams and more course work, it was easier to do more GCSEs as doing 2 sometimes even 3 exams a day is counterproductive.

@Araminta1003 Are you opposed to schools who practise the faith or just those who admit based on faith criteria?

I don't know how else to repeat it: I am opposed to using everyone's tax money to fund crucial services which discriminate based on religion or other characteristics. We wouldn't accept funding a state hospital which prioritises Muslims or Catholics, so why we accept it for schools is beyond me.

Being anti faith in a Christian country with a head of state who is head of the Church of England - is not a neutral position, far from it. We are still a COE country whether you like it or not

I am not sure what your line of reasoning is here. I hope that you're not going to do a Farage and tell me that I should leave this country if there's something I don't like?

A position doesn't become automatically any more "right" just because it is the official position of a country, or because most people believe in it. That line of reasoning would have, at various points in time, justified slavery, racial segregation, Na**sm, Stalinism, and all other kinds of horrors.

Oh, by the way the last census suggests we have 46% Christians and 37% no religion https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021 There isn't a further breakdown, but it's entirely possible the "no religion" outnumber the CoE

a lot of Christian principles are based on tolerance and love of thy fellow human anyway so hardly offensive stuff.

I didn't get into whether Christian principles are offensive or not. That is not the point. It is wrong for state-funded services to discriminate on religion, regardless of whether the religious principles in question are offensive or not.

But, now that you mention it, many religious principles are offensive.
The Church of England and the Catholic Church both oppose same-sex marriage. The Catholic Church opposes contraception. There is a lot which is perverse and wrong about many religious principles.

Do you teach your children that same-sex unions are wrong because some priests think so? You do you, I suppose.

@prh47bridge An undersubscribed faith school therefore does not discriminate on faith grounds.

In other words, you're saying that a faith school where not enough people want to go does not discriminate, but absolutely would discriminate, as the law allows it to, if tit were oversubscribed.

Mate, I am not sure this is a strong argument supporting your view - quite the opposite, IMHO!

The Fair Admission Campaign estimates that 72% of all places at faith secondaries are subject to religious admissions criteria, and that, in primary schools, voluntary controlled schools, which shouldn't discriminate but some do, are less than half (look at the table)

fairadmissions.org.uk/why-is-this-an-issue/number-of-schools-by-type/

I've taught in both. I also taught in state when we were allowed to teach both GCSE & IGCSE. Students getting 2 grades higher on IGCSE was standard. These days, the savvy parents of state school students pay for private entry to IGCSE through a different exam centre. My friends son did it. Couldn't get above a 4 at GCSE. 6 at IGCSE.

Re Faith schools

Its worth noting that the buildings and grounds are owned by the faith and also that a % of the cost is met by that particular faith
Some %s are less than others but still subsidised nevertheless

When some faith schools changed their entry criteria in the 70s to allow those in not of the faith ( if there were places available) it was on the condition that faith comes first
Of note this happened as a result of the increase in births but the Government not providing enough school places to accommodate that

I think as the faith owns the buildings and grounds and pays a % towards the education ( however much that may be ) it’s only right that faith is an upper criteria when offering places

Nonsence

This is a classic argument by those who attend, work or have their kids in state to put down private schools education
Same old same old

Luckily we don’t care and really don’t have to. Do we @twistyizzy 🤣🤣