Have you noticed many schools are trying to assign labels to pupils who may not necessarily need them - why is there a huge increase in SEN statements and the sheer number of pupils being diagnosed ?

[yummymu]

how does it benefit the school to pigeon hole and label children so avidly and relentlessly ? Are they being funded ? What is their motivation for doing so ? Is it in the best interests of pupils ? What about pupils who have a quirk about them ? Do they qualify ? How do we quantify an autism assessment ? Is this just complete nonsense and all children are different ?

https://educationadvocacy.co.uk/sen-funding/

There is not some system where schools say 'quick, get little Johnny a diagnosis so we can get some cash' and for every additional pupil with needs they suddenly get more money.

Currently in the process with my dd 6. DP shares the same views as the OP. It's draining.

Whilst I have sat for 2 hours settling her tonight even though she is exhausted because she has a new event at school tomorrow, is riddled with anxiety and can't turn her brain off 😔 a regular occurance. School suggesting for the second time in three years DD could be neurodiverse and asking us to request an assessment is apparently a money grab.

@CurlyKoalie
Well done for joining the OP in so succinctly parroting some of the bullshit I've heard over the years... very clever!

A couple of questions though -
Later, probably due to waiting lists, the diagnostics fell to more junior psychologists but still within the NHS ... I'd love to see the details about this, when it changed, which conditions are you talking about and who are the juniors?

..because these labels may have been taken at face value by primary schools.... why do you think this is? Is it because sencos and primary school staff are just not very good at understanding children's additional needs, and working with outside professionals, or is it because of all the funding they get, as you wonder in your question...

I dont know whether this attracts extra funding for the schools.
(Obviously they do... hence all the resources, and support staff getting paid decent wages)

Oh and I was a bit confused about this, particularly if they start to 'become the stereotype of the label' ... what label are you referring to and what are the stereotypes. Do tell.

Well children either are or they are not you can't stick a label to something that doesn't exist

A bit patronising !
As a secondary teacher I never see any information on money allocated to any SEN students. I never get to see the allocations of TAs time or money to each student either. This appears to be information held within the SEN dept.
I teach a practical science subject. 20 years ago I would have had a TA for each lesson to help me ensure the autistic students could do the practicals safely and possibly some external help in preparing materials for the dyslexic ones,
So extra money was found either externally or in school to support a wide range of SEN needs.
Now I do not see any TA's in my lessons despite teaching large classes (35+) with a high number of SEN students including some who are autistic. There is no external help in preparing differentiated resources.
The only SEN students who seem to automatically get the provision mentioned above have physical issues such as hearing impaired or partially sighted.
So Weedlin this is why I seem a bit vague on the SEN funding. More SEN money is coming into schools than ever before but its important that the wider MN community realises that the money is not there for the vast amount of students with 'labels' however long and hard they have fought for an assessment.
To go back to the OP perhaps that is because of the quality of the original testing is suspect and therefore resources are being spread too thinly

Do you really expect me to spend time responding in detail to each of your points when you were so rude in the first 2 lines of your post?
Suggest you show some manners in your postings if you are really interested in a mature exchange of views

Do you not think that this is because we are now AWARE? Just like people are now AWARE of women’s menopausal suffering. The issues have always been there but now we are actually paying attention to them.
I have always been of the opinion the ND is not nearly as rare as was previously thought. Our understanding is improving all the time. Children don’t have to needlessly suffer anymore or be labeled naughty, thick, etc.
‘y adult children are ND. I am. It took me 4 years to get an autism diagnosis for one of my daughters. She started the process when she was 12. We jumped through hoop after hoop, waited maybe half a year between appointments.

As I said up front, our motivation for diagnosis for our daughter was because she wass highly anxious and depressed. From the age of TEN. She had regular meltdowns (always at home never at school) and she is, as far as they are concerned, a model pupil, on track for sevens and eights at GCSE across the board. We see the struggles that school dont and we wanted to help her understand what was going on and why she finds things that other people find easy so difficult. It’s to stop her feeling like she’s “wrong” or even worse a “bad person” when it’s all down to neurological wiring that the world isn’t set up to support. It’s so she can advocate properly for herself into her adult years.

she doesn’t need extra funding. She might need a little time out occasionally when she gets overwhelmed though. And permission to do so with understanding from schools staff and hopefully future employers. Maybe it’s not always about money.

Exactly. Its a long, drawn out, expensive experience.
In our case, we have a diagnosis done by a private psychiatrist because CAMHS are a waste of time. We approached school for support, extra exam time etc to help and they said no, because there's no 'historical context' ie it's not something they consider an ongoing issue.

So no, OP, I don't think schools are doing this.

I do think there’s a big difference in severe obvious issues and smaller issues that can be overcome. All those years ago the Warnock report believed many needs were not present throughout school. It’s obviously in a schools interest to get more money but this is a long process and most dc do go through school on school financed help. This is not ring fenced though so we have too many dc needing adjustments and money. It’s up to schools to manage it.

There’s now a massive industry in diagnosing dc and years ago no one was doing this in the same quantity. It was something the better off did: especially dyslexia. This wasn’t heard of in deprived schools. So parents are seeking to get help for dc and not accepting dc are not that special. Schools don’t have the money and it’s not easy for anyone. There’s no answer to be honest.

Agreed. Many adults privately identify with the now commonly diagnosed conditions and think yes, that's me, and yes, it has always been a struggle, and yes, it might have helped to have a name for it, and support groups, info online etc, but I've coped and made a decent life without anyone having had to make accommodations for me. But if you're diagnosed as a child and led to believe that you're different and special enough to have the world bend around you, and increasing numbers of other children are also expecting their own accommodations, then only time will tell where that might lead at population level. Perhaps in 30 years time all children will be educated online with their own personally tailored approach.

What a goady post. The fact the op hasn’t come back says it all.

anyone who thinks schools are over diagnosising has never had a child that needs help.
a) schools don’t diagnose
b) you have to fight for year to get your child the support they need.

@welshpolarbear Yep. Everyone needs help. That’s the issue. That’s even there’s not enough money.

Rubbish!
and the OP can’t even bother to return.
and if you wonder then talk to some parents of children with SN and see how many have to wait years for a diagnosis.

I don't expect you to respond to each of my points... I was venting, and apologise for my rudeness, which was unnecessary.
It was borne out of frustration at reading attitudes like those in the OP and in your post, after years of fighting for support for my child's needs, and years of fighting for the right support for children with whom I work.

Teachers are generally too busy these days to be able to help or stay aware of the students with ‘smaller issues that can be overcome’. So they very often don’t get the small amount of support they need until it is too late - students with more obvious needs are prioritised. Then, after a period of showing much more resilience than they are usually given credit for and to schools’ apparent great surprise, they often fall apart and can’t access school.

Even students with obvious needs aren't prioritised.

DD's Primary had over 70% FSM and almost 80% EAL - we were middle-class parents, yet school organised and paid for a very in-depth Ed Psych report when they suspected dyslexia.

What we did find was that resources when it came to actual support and intervention went almost exclusively on behaviour issues and dealing with disruptive children leaving no time, no TAs and no support for those with SpLd.

In secondary it has felt the same, although add to behaviour the impact of children with anxiety and mental health problems... and dramatically more so since Covid. Not that these aren't just as important, but I think a lot of the more 'educational' SEN is less of a priority, probably because there are no quick fixes, it's not creating issues for anyone beyond the individual student and it's probably expensive over the long term as there are no quick fixes.

If teachers are a) teaching and b) running crowd control, they can have all the lists in the world saying that little Johnny has dyslexia and little Jemima is dyspraxic but where does the extra time or resource come from to give them any additional help?

Schools are NOT keen to label pupils, nor are they generally keen for pupils to have ehcps.

the difference between a quirk and the need for a diagnosis is impairment. You can be as quirky as you like but unless you’re impaired you get no diagnosis

ive seen some ridiculous goady posts on this platform but this one is right up there 🙄

It was difficult enough going through the process with my child, who has Down Syndrome. I can't imagine how hard it is when your child isn't obviously disabled.
Where the hell have you picked up this information?

100% agree that schools DO NOT want you to get an EHCP.

At every single stage we were dissuaded from applying for one - hinting that I might guaranteed an instant offer of a meeting to discuss and very firm advice not to. Primary and Secondary and over 10 years.

One of the reasons it appears there is more about is that we are getting better at spotting it - girls in particular didn't get AuD diagnoses that often in the past because they tend to be better at masking and all the research was on what it looked like in boys. ADHD was often put down to "naughtiness" and dyspraxia was just clumsiness - it was know as "clumsy child syndrome" and no one had a clue it affected how your brain worked.

We just paid nearly £3k for an assessment, because by the time we get to the top of the CAMHS wait list it will be too late.

She’s AuDHD. Not surprised in the slightest. Now hearing up to try for an EHCP - which the school don’t want to do.

Problem is we are at a high acheiving grammar school where they are in dire need of funding and they are unfairly labelling kids to secure funding from the council. all the kids have no needs and all the paents I have spoken to just gave in because the school is notorious at silencing parents... my son is in year 7 and has no issues at all but the school is barking loud telling us he has issues. all his reports have never stated any problems and no problems with behavior and is an academic pupil with lots of friends... school is threatening us with neglect and saying we are obstructing the help they wish to provide for a pupil with sen, our son also is distressed and keeps saying they are on his back, gp agrees with us - what shall we do?

why is it goady? because it is seeking information and asking questions? your experience may be with a child with special needs other peoples experience may be different to yours - that is a possibility too - have you thought of that

do you know schools can secure a vast amount of money by labelling children?