Have you noticed many schools are trying to assign labels to pupils who may not necessarily need them - why is there a huge increase in SEN statements and the sheer number of pupils being diagnosed ?

[yummymu]

how does it benefit the school to pigeon hole and label children so avidly and relentlessly ? Are they being funded ? What is their motivation for doing so ? Is it in the best interests of pupils ? What about pupils who have a quirk about them ? Do they qualify ? How do we quantify an autism assessment ? Is this just complete nonsense and all children are different ?

absolutely- anyone who thinks it’s easy to get an EHCP obviously has no clue!

Are you wanting someone to write your essay or article for you?

Oh I'd welcome some willy nilly diagnosing that you describe op. We have been waiting almost 3 years. School do not want to know. It's such a battle.

There also is no way parents are over diagnosing just for fun. It's endless forms meetings assessments email after email being ignored. Money, time it's such a headache.

Schools don't diagnose and certainly aren't rushing to put children on SEN support as that costs them money. Saying that I do think there are more children having SEN needs not just because of better awareness, but because schools (especially secondary) have become so underfunded, large and prescriptive that children that would previously have managed now can't. They also expect things that aren't actually developmentally appropriate such as expecting 11 year olds to be totally independent or 5 year olds to sit still for large parts of the day.

There's more commentary on SEND at the moment. That doesn't mean anything much is new. It just means people who aren't directly affected are noticing the news coverage.

I mean, tariffs have existed in some form for centuries but I bet you some people never heard the word till recently, still less knew what they were. You'd have to be living under a rock not to now.

To add in response to your most ridiculous statement "how do we quantify an autism assessment" - what do you mean: how much does it cost? What does it consist of? How many take place? Or something else?

Do you really think the NHS does anything lightly - have you actually tried getting the NHS to do anything?!

Our daughters diagnosis is nothing to do with school it’s important that she understands the struggles she has and where they stem from so she will understand herself better for the rest of her own life and be able to advocate for herself.

We’re not asking anything from school in return

@yummymu where do you live that schools hand out funding and help for SEN students? Cos I want to move there.

Schools being funded? No, they’re not. Even children with ECHP 1:1 hours the school has to fund a certain number of hours from their general budget.

Schools don’t diagnosis SEN. Autism assessments are completed my a multidisplinary team of medical professionals.

Did you really think I have no ideas about SEN, schools and diagnostic progress so
I will give the people of MN my uniformed opinion rather than do a little bit of internet research?

Diagnosis is still done by a professional. So if a child does get a diagnosis it isn’t based on a “fear” it’s based on the parent recognising the problem and fighting for assessment.

In the private sector there are good professionals and bad professionals: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-65534448

If you make your living out of diagnosing children it is in your interests to give parents what they want so they recommend you to others.

As a mum to a 6 year old diagnosed with Autism and ADHD, I can assure you schools don’t just “label” kids, and they certainly cannot diagnose. The diagnosis process is not for the weak, it’s a lengthy fight to get a referral in some instances let alone a diagnosis!

Perhaps it helps the schools to get better exam results if the pupils get extra time

how does it benefit the school to pigeon hole and label children so avidly and relentlessly ?
I don’t think most, if any schools, are doing this. There is no benefit to the school really. The waiting lists are also massively long to have a child seen by the relevant agencies that it can take years before a child receives a diagnosis. Schools cannot give a child a label or diagnosis.

Are they being funded ?

• very little, if any, funding to schools for a child having a diagnosis. Some children with a higher level of need may have funding attached depending on what they need in order to access the curriculum, However, this should be used in very specific ways.

What is their motivation for doing so ?
in some situations a referral and diagnosis is beneficial to the child. That is the motivation - to help the child and their parents fully access the school curriculum or other agencies.

Is it in the best interests of pupils ?
generally yes, or for their parents - it means they can better access help or support - in theory at least.

What about pupils who have a quirk about them ? Do they qualify ?
Do they qualify for what?
What do you mean a quirk?

How do we quantify an autism assessment ?
To get a diagnosis of ASD there are various assessments to go through. The school doesn’t just decide. Infact after the referral the school is not involved in the diagnosis bar allowing agencies into the classrooms to observe and completing a questionnaire.

Is this just complete nonsense and all children are different ?
Of course all children are different.
That doesn’t mean that some children don’t have a more specific need or diagnosis.
Do you not believe that people can be autistic?

How do we quantify an autism assessment?

You know there's criteria, right? Not set by school or individuals, it's in the DSM.

No, I haven’t. I think you’re talking nonsense.

Yes I have. My son’s old teacher in his first school was notorious for it. One year she told about half the kids parents their kids were on the spectrum. Then one day we went to parents evening and she started using language to hint my son was autistic so I realised it was our turn.

I think schools get extra funding if kids at the school are SEN so there’s definitely a financial motivation there. It’s sad because it can’t be nice giving a kid a label when they don’t need one.

Of course they will and it would be naive to think this doesn’t happen.

Schools don't get extra funding in that way.

Most teachers will also tell you that the vast majority of kids with extra time have no clue how to use it effectively.

As the parent of a SEN child - who gets nothing beyond extra time, because there's no money, no resources and she's never a priority because she might actually pass core subjects - it's actually quite upsetting to know that so many people probably think her diagnosis and her adjustments are some kind of fraud.

It has been years of stress, expense and upset to be where we are now. It's pretty miserable being able enough to be in top sets, but disabled enough that your exam scores will always be the worst in the class because no amount of extra time is going to rewire her brain to carry out the tasks the exam boards want.

Her disabilities are there for the whole of her life and she is never going to be able to do lots of things other people take for granted. Do you really begrudge her an extra 20 minutes in a test?

Jokes

Simply put yes! There are basically 3 funding streams:

• Basic funding per pupil
• Extra funding per pupil with SEND needs
• Ringfenced funding for pupils with EHCPs

If a learner is going to need some extra help to achieve their potential, then there needs to be a way their school or college can draw this funding. The more a pupil's needs are highlighted, the more funding the institution can receive, and the more money there is to fund support for the learner. If the learner's needs cannot be met alongside other learner's needs easily, then proving they have very individual needs through an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) gets the institution funding specifically for that student, to provide some one-to-one support etc.

Going deeper into that, it isn't just about funding, it's also about WHO you are educating and what their outcomes are. In college, we are seeing increasing numbers of students who not that long ago would simply not have gone to college. They would have dropped out possibly after failing their GCSEs at 16, but actually for a lot of them at 13,14,15 way before they even attempted their GCSEs. They would have become school refusers, who no-one bothered about. Now they aren't, they are going on through their GCSEs, further qualifications, maybe uni and needing support all the way through.

Going back to your questions about pigeon holing, I have no doubt that sometimes it is BAD. I have no doubt that there are learners who struggle with being labelled, lose their self esteem, get bullied and fail educationally, have breakdowns, drop out, even sometimes commit suicide sadly, because of how they are labelled. I would be the first to admit that labelling CAN be BAD, damaging etc. However, until the education system is radically more funded, we can't afford everything that would help pupils. Without labels, we would have to spread the funding there is equally across all pupils. There are currently pupils who don't get enough support to meet their full potential. Without labelling some children as deserving more support, their would be many more who were failed by, and consequently failed in education.

I don't know where you live... but having fought for children with very clear needs to be assessed by an EP, and knowing if the lack of EPs in many areas... this surprises me!

Over the past 20 years as a teacher I have witnessed a steady increase in the number of children given a label for some sort of perceived learning disorder.
When I started teaching these diagnostics were done by highly qualified consultant level medical professionals. Appropriate resources were put in place. Later, probably due to waiting lists, the diagnostics fell to more junior psychologists but still within the NHS,
In recent years many parents come to school with 'a diagnosis' from private 'institutes' many of whom seem to just be in existance to just charge parents a lot of money to label their child and send the parents into school with a list of demands with no extra funding.
At secondary level parents get understandably upset when the exam boards wont accept many of these labels and the child has to be tested again by an accredited test centre. Often parents blame the secondary school because these labels may have been taken at face value by primary schools.
Whilst there are genuine cases with correct diagnoses, who do need special arrangements, I feel that there is a lot of over diagnosis particularly in years 1-9,
I dont know whether this attracts extra funding for the schools.
I feel very uneasy with an education system that labels young people with learning or development issues when they are performing within standard perameters, particularly if they start to 'become the stereotype of the label'

@CurlyKoalie "I don't know whether this attracts extra funding for the schools."

As a teacher of 20 years I'm very surprised you don't know how SEN funding works. Schools only get additional funding if a child's SEN is severe enough to warrant an EHCP. It can take months or years of effort to get one of those and the bar is very high.

Most children diagnosed with SEN are on "school support plans" which means they are supported by schools with no additional funding.