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Secondary education

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Anyone waiting for Herts / N London 11+ results?

176 replies

bluegreencherry · 10/01/2025 19:29

Our DS is only sitting two - Habs and St Albans. Second round for Habs next week, waiting to hear whether he will get invited back for second round of St Albans. I'm finding all this waiting is shredding my nerves, so if anyone else is in a similar position with these schools and fancies a pointless chat / baseless speculation on impact of VAT on applications / the process / Plan Bs, please say so!

OP posts:
BarqsHasBite · 23/01/2025 19:36

Thanks @bluegreencherry! Is your son still leaning towards Habs or has his 'head been turned' by SAS? 😆

My friend said similar - head made clear that today was part of the assessment process and that her son enjoyed the experience. Her DS had a slightly different science lesson (something about a balloon?) but I guess they mix them up a bit.

As for numbers there's another thread somewhere on MN speculating about whether schools are inviting more candidates for interviews/callbacks than in previous years. It's much harder for schools to estimate how many offers to make in order to fill their places this year - some may interview more, others may interview/call back the same but make a higher number of offers (here's hoping!). Some schools also run a waiting list but I've not heard that mentioned in relation to SAS so who knows.

My guess was also that in past years they offered about double the number of places but it is just a guess. I'm going to be optimistic and say they are going to offer most callback boys a place 🍀

There are some excellent state schools in St Albans though some people live in a catchment black hole and can only get in one of the less 'desirable' ones. Maybe with the birth rate dropping that will ease of slightly this year.

BarqsHasBite · 23/01/2025 19:43

Also, be glad you didn’t apply to Westminster - it sounds like they’ve spent the day sending out wrongly addressed interview invitations, so parents got an email inviting a child other than their own to interview! 🫣

bluegreencherry · 23/01/2025 19:59

OMG re Westminster!! Someone in their Admissions team is having an even worse work week than me 😂

@BarqsHasBite we have banned all school chat till mid Feb so not sure what his preference is! Didn't want to talk about it too much in case actually we don't have a choice - or any choices and I think he is finding it pretty unsettling. He has a usual busy weekend ahead with playing football & some family stuff so trying to "go back" to real life. So I guess I'm just back to silent obsessing/ overthinking (and MN!)

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honeynutcereal · 24/01/2025 07:43

Oh no! Hopefully all the people they sent interviews to did in fact qualify for the interview list, imagine being sent an interview with the wrong name on it and then not ‘sorry X, we meant X’ but ‘sorry X, you’re not actually on the list at all’ !!

So we are getting ready for the callback today and will report later with info.

Checked the website and what it exactly says is ‘We usually see approx 300 boys at the 11+ Assessment Day, with approx 72 places available. However, a few additional places may be awarded at the Headmaster’s discretion if the cohort is academically strong.
Approximately 50% of applicants will be invited to the second-round call back sessions.’

So assuming a few is 2 added on at discretion, 74*2, then looking at about 150 offers give or take…but if 280 applied this year then maybe 140 offers…can’t find where it said it on the isi report but Im sure I read they were granted permission to increase the number of classes too… 🙏 everyone gets a place on the interview lists.

Re asking your child which school they prefer, Ive asked DS this a lot, the other day he just said ‘you’re the parent, it’s your job to decide this stuff for me’ 😬

honeynutcereal · 24/01/2025 11:54

So head said today there were roughly 300 applications and 220 callbacks, he said today was about you choosing us. They really sold it well, we haven’t been back for a tour since a few years ago as was concentrating on Habs, but it really did come across as a lovely school.

I spoke to a handful of parents, a few said they are deciding between St Albans, Habs and MTS; there were a few that seemed set on Habs; there were others that said it’s their only choice as it’s their local school and they don’t want their sons to do a long journey. Son said majority of uniforms were from prep schools he knows. I found that interesting as bursar said to us when we bumped into him on the assessment day that the intake is 75% state at this point. We were considering deferring to 13+ and going more local till DS is older and better able to cope with long days but it seems competition will be a lot stronger at 13+ with the prep school entry.

roses2 · 24/01/2025 11:59

So head said today there were roughly 300 applications and 220 callbacks, he said today was about you choosing us.

Surprising as Habs is really high performing whereas MT is ranked much lower in comparison. My sons state school gets better GCSE results than MT! I wonder if it is a commute issue as Habs are out in the sticks whereas MT you can get the tube.

School League Tables | the Best Primary, Secondary and Independent Schools | Locrating

BarqsHasBite · 24/01/2025 12:10

I hope it all goes/went well for you @honeynutcereal !

Our match report - DS really enjoyed the lessons and was buzzing when he came out. He said they got to do some experiments themselves in the science lesson and that the geography lesson, having to guess countries from facts they were given, was much more fun than at his school.

The headteacher said they'd had 280 odd for the exam and around 220 had been called back (which is much higher than the 'half' claim on the website - I suspect due to the greater uncertainty around acceptance rates, though the head of admissions told me it was usually more than half).

The Director of Marketing and Admissions said a few positive/encouraging things:

  • the exam and interview were the main hurdle/the main thing the school considered when making offers.
  • While the group lessons were part of the assessment, they were really just to see how the boys interacted in a classroom setting and to check they weren't disruptive etc.
  • They want to make as many offers as possible today - while there were 60 odd assessment boys who they had not invited for callbacks, they were not looking to cull (my word not hers) similar numbers at this stage, and weren't trying to find reasons to rule boys out.

She also sang the praises of the new head, and said that they didn't expect things to change radically under him but that he had a vision for the school and was just what the school needed, particularly in a more challenging landscape moving forwards. She wasn't critical of the old head but said he was more traditional and that Mr S has a more modern and informal approach.

I asked if SAS ran a waiting list and she said it was still TBD by the head - the previous head had sometimes put a few boys on the waiting list and that the new head would decide this year when they sat down to consider all the applicants.

About half their Y7 boys come from prep schools and half from state primaries. She also said they mix them all up completely into tutor groups and don't ask parents to specify if they want their child to go with a particular friend. However, she said parents sometimes asked for a DS not to be put with someone from their prep/primary if they wanted a change of friendship group, and it sounded like they tried to accommodate these requests. Y7s I spoke to reiterated what I'd heard before - it doesn't matter if you don't know anyone when you start, everyone is kind and friendly and it's easy to make friends.

They add another 72 boys /3 forms at 13+ entry, but 11+ entry was more competitive than 13+. The current Y7 was 80 so there was some flex, but they didn't want to go much above that as it would mean adding a fourth tutor group.

Other parents I chatted to - most seemed to have applied to Habs too, and one also to City, plus another like us who hadn't applied to any other indies. It was only a small number I spoke to but it sounded like some were leaning towards Habs, not least because it was nearer/logistics would be easier.

BarqsHasBite · 24/01/2025 12:13

Re the Westminster cock-up - it sounds like everyone who was contacted with the wrong name then had it confirmed that their own son was indeed being invited back for interview. However, I am left wondering if that was always the case, or if the school decided it would be too reputationally damaging to say "Sorry, we didn't mean to invite your son back at all!" and they just decided to interview everyone who got an erroneous email. I could be wrong though!

honeynutcereal · 24/01/2025 14:23

Thats lovely @BarqsHasBite DS felt similar too. He really enjoyed the lessons. He’s at a very sweet primary but it’s not stimulating like this and I think he was very excited by the way they seem to learn at SAS through discussion, debate and questioning.

@roses2 MTS being Merchant Taylor’s, I thought they were similar league to St Albans?

Re Westminster, yes you’re probably right @BarqsHasBite its an even worse faux pas to rescind the offers. Maybe they are sitting in their office now with their heads in their hands thinking how will we maintain our GCSE results for this cohort 🤭

Backtothefuture7 · 24/01/2025 15:48

Thanks all
Just to clarify yesterday he said it’s still at a competitive stage - 200 callbacks through today he is saying 220 ?! Also from my count there were 3 sessions yesterday and today all with approx 12 boys in the class . If my maths is correct that is 108 callbacks ?
confused.com

BarqsHasBite · 24/01/2025 16:21

@honeynutcereal that's great your son enjoyed it too. I worked out it was my fifth tour of the school, I reckon we should be eligible for some sort of loyalty bonus! 😂

Re 11+ vs 13+ we were told the opposite - that it's much more competitive at 11+, I guess because they have all the state applicants plus a number of preps, but 13+ is largely just preps that run up to Y8. I was reassured as our back-up plan is to send our son to a local prep for two years to have another go at SAS - hopefully it won't come to that of course but it sounds like a viable option.

Oh, and you're right they got permission to expand the overall size of the school - I asked them about this on an open day (one of the many!). They said it didn't mean they had definite plans to add more classes or increase numbers, but wanted that flexibility and that they had increased physical capacity of the school (I think with the new maths block?) so it was to marry up with that.

@Backtothefuture7 Yes, we were told 220 callbacks, though I gather yesterday they said 200. There were 3 time slots yesterday and 3 time slots today, and apparently 20-25 in each group. However, they said more people attended today than yesterday, so possibly they had double sessions running today?

If the head was giving the impression the callback were highly competitive I wonder if he was deploying a bit of a 'scarcity' marketing tactic, to give us the impression that the school is in high demand and therefore desirable. My takeaway/read-between-the-lines from what the Director of Marketing and Admissions said was that unless a boy put in a positively bad performance today or was clearly a bad fit then they were likely to get an offer. But don't quote me on that, not least as it sounds like the head makes the final call on offers!

Backtothefuture7 · 24/01/2025 17:46

Numbers still don’t add up and head not consistent in what he is saying
I wasn’t clear at all the callback

MuffinCoffee · 24/01/2025 23:42

@roses2 Merchant Taylor's results are comparable to st Albans.

Gcse:

•	Merchant Taylors' School (2024):
•	70% of grades were 9-8; 87.7% were 9-7.
•	St Albans School (2024):
•	68% of grades were 9-8; 87% were 9-7.

A levels

•	Merchant Taylors' School (2024):
•	36.5% A, 71.1% A-A, 91.4% A*-B.
•	St Albans School (2024):
•	32% A, 70% A-A, 91% A*-B.
BarqsHasBite · 24/01/2025 23:54

Results very comparable in the Times Parent Power league table too.

We looked at MTS and it had more of a hothouse feel than SAS - a lot of emphasis on exam results in the headteacher talk.

Anyone waiting for Herts / N London 11+ results?
honeynutcereal · 25/01/2025 11:34

Does anyone have concerns about the single sex element of St Albans? I know it’s co-ed in sixth form but what we liked about Habs was the schools do co-curriculars together and the kids get the coach together…

I wonder if DS will end up seeing girls as aliens. I can imagine him just being bussed in and out, do his homework and a few extra curriculars if he’s not too tired and that’s it… I don’t want him to have relationships at 13/14! Just an awareness and not see girls as aliens! When I spoke to one of their sixth formers he said that he lives locally and some of the boys know girls from STAHs and STAGs so they meet each other at houseparties; that sounds like fun but DH and I never did that and as a family we aren’t the type to host teenagers regularly; we prefer family time at the weekend. DH and I both went to single sex schools. I didn’t talk to boys for literally five years and I really did think they were another species 🫣 just wondered if anyone else has had similar thoughts? I’m torn between DS having a first class education and a co-educational local school for a more balanced experience…obviously incredibly lucky to even be in the situation where this is a consideration, I know SAS is the kind of school people move home for and spend years tutoring to get in, so don’t want to come across as flippant or arrogant, it’s just a concern and I wondered how others felt

DawsonsGeek · 25/01/2025 12:05

I think it depends on your family and social life as much as the school. For example, does DS have sisters? Does he go to a co-ed primary / do co-ed extracurricular activities so he's comfortable socialising with girls? Do your friends you hang out with have daughters? There are lots of opportunities for him to socialise with girls outside of school so they don't seem like another species!

We have applied for co-eds for DD. I went to a girls school from 4 to 18 and also felt the 'alien boys' thing you are talking about. However, my sister who went to the same school as me, had no such issues so personality is a factor. DD has a sister (not a brother) so we are a female dominated house! She has a lot of boy friends at school and is not a girly girl, so I thought she'd be happier in a mixed environment. However, this is simply what feels right for us and it doesn't mean the same for you. There is no right or wrong answer. If you love the school you've applied for and you think it's the right fit for DS I wouldn't rule it out solely on this. There will be opportunities for him to be around girls outside of school. A friend has a son at SAS and he absolutely loves it.

Gosh, this is a tough old process isn't it? So many factors to consider it makes the mind boggle. But it's important to remember that a great school is a great school, single sex or co-ed. And I'm sure your DS will thrive.

Just want the wait to be over now...

roses2 · 25/01/2025 12:40

MuffinCoffee · 24/01/2025 23:42

@roses2 Merchant Taylor's results are comparable to st Albans.

Gcse:

•	Merchant Taylors' School (2024):
•	70% of grades were 9-8; 87.7% were 9-7.
•	St Albans School (2024):
•	68% of grades were 9-8; 87% were 9-7.

A levels

•	Merchant Taylors' School (2024):
•	36.5% A, 71.1% A-A, 91.4% A*-B.
•	St Albans School (2024):
•	32% A, 70% A-A, 91% A*-B.

My point was MT is not comparable to Habs, which is ranked 11 vs MT which is 53. 53 is still good but not in the same league as Habs. So it depends on the OPs motivation of why she is picking one over the other - if there was an offer for both then for me there would need to be a very compelling reason to pick MT over Habs eg commute.

https://www.locrating.com/league_tables.aspx

honeynutcereal · 25/01/2025 12:57

@DawsonsGeek

Thank you for your thoughtful and kind reply. ❤️ Yes it’s a very tough process. Ultimately I want DS to be well balanced AND well educated; set up for life and all in entails.

DS has a sister but DD is a baby so quite a big gap! He goes to a co-ed primary but all his extra curriculars are with boys as he is quite a boys boy. He says he has fun annoying a girl in class and she loves to annoy him too. 😂 So I would say he is socially comfortable with girls at the moment. 😂

My friends just have boys unfortunately or boys with a much younger girl like I have. So once the school connection stops I think it will be on us to arrange extra curriculars with girls to familiarise him with them, maybe a Saturday drama club or similar; but that would be one hour a week compared to the day to day casual interaction of school. Or let him go to houseparties/host them which I don’t like the idea of to be honest. On the other hand, an excellent education will make a huge impact on his future success in life; plus he is academic and driven. So so hard. I wish I could find my Goldilocks school but it doesn’t exist!

Totally agree, I want the wait to be other and to make a decision and commit to it for better or worse!

BarqsHasBite · 25/01/2025 14:05

I agree it’s tricky @honeynutcereal. It’s a shame there seem to be no co-ed activities with STAHS. I went to an all girls from age 14 and we had foreign exchanges and drama productions at least with a boys school, and also got invited to their CCF discos (highlight of the social calendar!). But the schools were part of the same trust, and I know SAS and STAHS are completely separate - even so.

I would have preferred a co-ed - DS isn’t very outgoing and I can see him struggling a bit with girls if he goes to SAS. But it would have meant sacrificing a lot of other things on our list (academically rigorous but not hot-house, local both for friendships and as son would have hated a long coach ride, and not a faith school). So we’ve had to compromise on co-ed - just can’t have it all.

He’s not into drama or any other typically mixed sex activities which he could do out of school.

Luckily our DD is only 18 months younger so there should be scope for both of them to mix with the other’s friends (in theory - in practice I can see them each refusing point blank!).

I can say categorically that we will never be hosting any parties for them at our house though, and if that leaves our DS girlfriendless then so be it I’m afraid! 🤣

BarqsHasBite · 25/01/2025 15:15

Oh, I remembered that they boys are allowed into town a lunchtime from y11-13 so that’s at least one theoretical opportunity to mix with girls other than the handful in the 6th form.

bluegreencherry · 25/01/2025 16:30

@honeynutcereal, it is hard! Overall we would prefer co-ed but it wasn't a deciding factor (obviously, given we only applied to Habs and St Albans 😂). I agree with @DawsonsGeek - there is no right or wrong answer and a great school is a great school! I know you're worried about the commute etc though too so guess it is another factor weighing in Belmont's favour (is that co-ed?).

@roses2, not sure if it was my post you were replying to but I don't know anything about MTS actually- just looked at Habs & SAS. Sorry if I was confusing but my quote in your post about callbacks is in relation to SAS - I can't remember the numbers the Habs head told us but I remember the number of applicants was much higher than SAS, and the interview/ callback process was definitely as assessment where only a proportion of those interviewed would be offered places. Well that's what he said anyway who knows what the reality is? I imagine they have a higher acceptance rate than SAS, but again... who knows?!

OP posts:
bluegreencherry · 25/01/2025 16:33

@BarqsHasBite @honeynutcereal glad your sons enjoyed the SAS call back and thank you for the detailed reports, great info!

Three weeks to go...

OP posts:
BarqsHasBite · 25/01/2025 18:19

Acceptance rates is a million dollar question, and presumably varies a lot school to school.

Anecdotally, it seems common for London-based 11+ candidates to apply for 5 or so schools.

So counterintuitively, some of the more popular schools (City, Westminster, St Paul’s, maybe Habs to the extent it attracts an across-London crowd?) may have a lower acceptance rate than out-of London schools where parents don’t have as much choice.

But again, who knows!

I wish someone who’d worked in an admissions office at one of these schools would come on MN and spill the beans…

honeynutcereal · 25/01/2025 19:17

lol @BarqsHasBite I love that you categorically won’t be having houseparties, I feel the same, I’ve heard of parents going away for the night so that their teenagers and friends can have free reign of their house 😳 wow, I just couldn’t do this. Id end up hiding in the shed and checking in every few hours 🤣 to see if a) my house is still intact b) they are 😂😂😂

@bluegreencherry yes Belmont is co-ed and about a twenty minute drive for us. It’s got fantastic facilities, grounds and extra-curricular. Results for A level are not hot though. In comparison, St Albans is usually around 60th place, my state sixth form 250th and Belmont/Mill Hill 480th, (Belmont is the prep for Mill Hill) so if league tables are to go by it’s not in the same ballpark at all. We would probably only stay for GCSEs though and then move to a selective state sixth form regardless of where we go to save £££. Got to do this all again for DD. I still think Mill Hill is significantly better than our local state comprehensive option which is 22% 9-7 at GCSE, Belmont/Mill Hill is 65%. The state comp options near us are out! I know that much for sure!

venice24 · 25/01/2025 19:20

If it helps at all, the admissions lady at Habs told us that for 11+ they had the same number of applicants as last year (600, although their interview invite email said they had more applicants but I think that was for 7+ and 13+). Half got called back, so 300. I think they admit around 110 children at 11+ and given it is a long journey for London-based families, I would think they have to offer to at least 150 (although local families are more likely to accept so who knows?) The lady said the interviewers do not know the scores from the first round, so the feedback is totally based on the interview (which is academic unlikely at MTS for example where my DS did not get asked any academic questions at all). So they then combine the first and second round results and determine offers. Anecdotally she said they are worried that once state schools release offers in March they may get fewer acceptances due to the VAT increase. But they don't know.