Spanish or Russian GCSE?

[ispecialiseinthis]

My DC GCSE options deadline is coming up and, as with most 14yo, they don’t currently have a career in mind.
The school will let them do a maximum of 10 GCSEs - 6 core subjects (triple science, English language and literature, maths). Doing both languages is not really an option, as it will mean dropping another option.

Any advice how to choose between the two languages? TIA

Very few psych grads become psychologists- it’s a long road.

Sadly, @clary Actually there is a huge demand for this not very well paid job.

I loved studying Art History. The depressing thing was job prospects after studying it

Yes and no. There are far faaar more non bilingual Spanish GCSE exam takers than bilingual. As a comparison it is a completely different case with Russian and hardly any non bilingual takes Polish at GCSE.
A matter of percentage

How ever hard I look I can't find any data to back this up. We live in an area with high numbers Polish and Ukrainian people here, but they're not all doing Russian GCSE, only a few of them are. Out of 55 kids in my son's year, only 9 are from a background with awareness of Russian language. The majority are actually doing German!

How ever hard I look I can't find any data to back this up.
Because you are not the target audience of the Saturday schools and the information is not necessarily in English.
There are well over 130 schools associated in Polska Macierz Szkolna in UK. And only 60 percent of schools joined that organisation. The schools are 100-500 kids. My son attends a school where there are above 300 kids.

The interesting thing is that bilingual kids are passing well the GCSE language exam even if they not attended the school- they speak with their parents at home

Most people here from the EU won’t have MFL degrees.

As if anybody was looking at MFL degree when looking for a language speaker.

What I mean is that to speak fluently a language you don't need a MFL degree.
An example, I know a trade marketeer who has a degree in marketing. The requirement for her job in Italian company was to speak fluently Italian and relevant to marketing education and experience in trade marketing. And guess what- she is Italian who speaks good English. nobody asked her about MFL. It doesn't matter. She speaks better Italian than any of the MFL candidates and she has relevant degree and experience. As a matter of fact her case is very very common.

There are millions of bilinguals in UK of a first of second generation who apart from immaculate command of other language have expertise in the job they apply for: a degree, years of experience.

I don't really understand why, tbh. I did a similarly not obviously applicable subject at university and have never had any issue with job/career prospects. I think this might be some issue specific to you or perhaps wherever you studied.

Because all of us make this world @TheRainItRaineth I studied and all the time I was concerned what I will do afterwards. I am a very practical person, who discovered a lot of aspects of so called iconography ( nothing to do with icons) detached from reality and far from what I expected Art history studies to be. The contemporary artists had a great laugh when they read what was behind their idea as interpreted by the art historians. I had to memorise thousands of dates, what it is called where it is located and who made it for the exam. Obviously most of that I don't remember anymore and I doubt any of my peer do unless they specialise in a narrow part of it.

Studying a subject can kill the passion because the educational program includes a lot of boring aspects. E.g. I know a person who studied English literature, and she made me laugh when she said that for few years after the degree she had book phobia. Simply, they had to read hundreds of books per year, remember all details.
but respect the fact that other people can have a different perspective on things:) - live and let live as they say

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn You are very obtuse at times. If an employer needs a Polish speaker they employ one. Ditto other MFLs. MFL grads are not necessarily looking for these jobs. My DD certainly didn’t. The MFL degree opens doors to other careers which you seem not to understand.. I don’t care if grads speak Gaelic, Czech or Polish, if an employer wants other skills. they ignore these ones. Most grads have jobs because they are intellectually suited for it, whatever their degree. They might have other attributes and skills that make them highly employable too. You seem to think your first degree was a waste but maybe you made the mistake of thinking it was vocational. For many it’s not and they understand the need to have additional skills and attributes for a range of jobs including experience of work.

I don't really understand why, tbh. I did a similarly not obviously applicable subject at university I think this might be some issue specific to you

my dear, I would never be a product manager in scientific organisations having only Art History on my CV. Nothing personal. Just the rationale of market

and have never had any issue with job/career prospects.

So what you saying is that if you desired to be a doctor or a dentist after MFL you would have no problem on the job market. 😅
Well I did. So I studied further

As I said I wasn't suited for a job in a museum or castle

@TizerorFizz
In my opinion the main objective of going to uni has been to get a job related to the field you study and not work as a PA or serve the coffee, jobs that can be done without very specific degrees.

grads have jobs because they are intellectually suited for it, whatever their degree. They might have other attributes and skills that make them highly employable too

And what distinguished a freshly graduate without experience from hundreds of thousands applicants if not their degree? They see the CV and not a person. And even if a lucky candidate comes and are interviewed, there are many highly intelligent, motivated young people. I do employ at times. Degree and relevance to the role greatly matters ahen reviewing CVs.

You are very obtuse at times.
Thank you for your kindness . One think I got from my education is to never make personal remarks just because somebody has a different opinion. 😃 It takes all of us to male this world and there is no need to make everybody think the same way.

Thank you for your kindness . One think I got from my education is to never make personal remarks just because somebody has a different opinion. 😃 It takes all of us to male this world and there is no need to make everybody think the same way.

You obviously have a very short memory then!

Learning another language is good for the brain (I believe for those who become fluent it is even some what protective against dementia). This is probably why there was a emphasis on learning Latin and Greek in the traditional school system.

I think education at school level should be about developing student's minds rather than a focus on purely vocational skills. I mean there are many ways you can train your mind, languages are a good one but maths, coding, history, art and music will all develop different skills and train different parts of the brain. Not everyone has to do everything but a bit of variety is good.

Also even if you don't study mfl at uni lots of courses let you spend a year abroad if you can demonstrate some basic language skills (probably fewer since we left the eu) and this can be a great way to become proficient in another language and experience a different culture. For that type of thing Spanish seems better than Russian. But I guess there is the fun of learning a different alphabet if you like that type of thing.

I think there is definitely an intersection of skills between maths, languages and computer science and complex problem solving recruits many different brain areas.

Your assertion is that the majority of children taking Russian will be doing so as bi-lingual speakers. Your experience of one Saturday school, how ever many people attend, is purely anecdotal, and very much not backed up by the experience at my sons school where the majority of Russian speaking (Polish, Ukrainian etc) children have taken German.

Purely anegdotal list on the Polska Macierz Szkolna website? Please 😅... You are drawing conclusions ton the topic you have zero idea about. Data is also available at the embassies. E.g. Polish government provides certain funding for those schools and that is they are relatively inexpensive. Every school applies. It is money! The money is distributed per pupil. We, parents apply for school ID. Basing on that the money are allocated per pupil and transferred to a Polish Saturday School. This ID is also recognised in Poland and gives train and bus discount there. The number of ID released is measured.

Russian schools are most often associated with Orthodox church and run on Sundays.
Many of those kids attend Catholic or Christian schools.
Yes, almost all Polish GCSE takers are bilingual.
Many are in Russian. Not all of course but quite a lot.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn I think, to be charitable, you have been unfortunate or had very high expectations. Surely you expected to have to learn things for your degree? And no one hoping to be a dentist would take a history degree.

I know a person who studied English literature, and she made me laugh when she said that for few years after the degree she had book phobia.

OTOH my dd who took a first in English lit works with books and reads voraciously. 150+ books last year.

OK, I know Polish speakers who can translate it for me, so can you share the link that outlines that the majority of children who study Russian (or Polish) for GCSE are bilingual already. I know you said it wasn't for the likes of me, but I would be interested in this link.

I will do a request for this information from the Polish embassy. Because I am sure they have a list of how many non-Polish kids sat Russian GCSE each year.

@JusteanBiscuits

In 2023 7000 kids took GCSE in Polish. There are 18,000 Polish children attending Supplementary Saturday Schools.

3000 kids took Italian GCSE
2590 kids took Russian GCSE

Excuse me... The largest Spanish speaking country (120million) isn't Spain nor is located in South America.

Can you confirm that the 18000 pupils that attend the Saturday school are all doing Russian?

Having checked the data, unfortunately ethnicity / country of origin isn't reported on for GCSE's (outside of some specialist figures for maths & english)

I will ask again for the link that states the majority of children taking Russian are bilingual?

@JusteanBiscuits the government doesn't seem to keep stats. Really I feel this situation is a big problem for MFL. Given how some competitive universities will count how many 8/9 s you get at gcse then the presence of native speakers in languages that don't get many entrants will quite rationally put people off studying them.

I found a study but it is from 2007 so a lot could have changed.

Thinking a degree should only be vocational leads to questioning many academic degrees. It seems lots are given the useless tag. It appears the academic study of a subject and then acquiring skills and attributes from that is a waste of time. It sounds very sad and probably of square peg dc trying to fit into round holes! Pushed by the Eastern European version of the tiger parent.

Ok I just looked this up on the Pearson website. I think when many native speakers do a subject the numbers of 9s awarded ends up being higher. No idea how they try to do this fairly especially with the small number of entrants. To me it just shows the flaw of having grades in individual subjects at this level rather than some sort of high school certificate.

Anyway for Pearson (I think they might be the only exam board to do Russian?)

72.7% of gcses in Russian are awarded at a 9
6.6% of gcses in Spanish are awarded at a 9

The figures for Russian are inline with other languages primarily taken by native speakers such as Urdu.

Spanish corresponds with French and German.

Could you give me a link to the claim on the school's website, even though, as you explained, it's not for the likes of me. I do keep asking. I'm not interested in screen shot of an AI or anything.

Our government is actually very good at giving open access to data. If I had a few hours to spend I could probably work out by cross referencing data sets. But I don't have the time or care for that.