Spanish or Russian GCSE?

[ispecialiseinthis]

My DC GCSE options deadline is coming up and, as with most 14yo, they don’t currently have a career in mind.
The school will let them do a maximum of 10 GCSEs - 6 core subjects (triple science, English language and literature, maths). Doing both languages is not really an option, as it will mean dropping another option.

Any advice how to choose between the two languages? TIA

Here is a great page that explains how much quicker an English speaker will learn Spanish (category 1 ) than Russian ( category 4).

https://effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty/

using it in a professional capacity after taking it to degree level.

Keen to learn in what capacity

Are you genuinely having issues re: comprehension?
Only when reading strange claims

Do you seriously think that any child studying GCSE French claims to be fluent by the end of the course?

A child studying for French language GCSE will speak better French than the same child learning Russian. Link of comparison has been provided and it explains why

Interesting piece on your 15:37 post.
I would like to say though that not all kids are the same

Mine learnt German from age 4, then French from age 9 and those that took Russian found it really easy. One much easier than French which is ( re your article) apparently easier.
I myself ground German far easier than French.

So perhaps it depends on the child as well and maybe what they have learnt in the past

Well clearly you have a genius child that with an hour or two per week finds Cyrillic conjugation and declination at the age of 9 easy.

I personally do not believe in a great language progress without many hours of education like 15-20 per week. This is what I had in mid 90ties here in Uk for 3 years before passing Cambridge Proficiency and it was apparently fast.

My child ordinary bilingual kid. He attends once per week 4 h Saturday Polish school since the age of 4. None of the kids speak there as fluent in Polish as they speak English because they are raised in UK

My son is the top of his school year at French due to tutoring but his French is basic. Very basic. He doesn't consider French easy because he understand the scope of what is to learn. Neither do consider it after 4 years of formal education in French and twice a year holidays in the South of France .

For somebody criticising the fluency of other people’s children your own typing and grammar isn’t the most accurate..!

Just a minor misunderstanding but they learnt French from age 9.
Russian they started the year before the GCSE course started and I believe they did 4/5 hours a week during the GCSE years, less the year before as they were covering more subjects.
( Their school also did language speaking events every week in the evening or weekends, to build confidence )

Thanks @ThatMauveRaven

we are not all the same !

In most of the school we are looking at 3 hours of language at the secondary level. That is not much. That is why most of English people hardly speak foreign languages but they had it at school. And compare with results of teaching languages in e.g. Netherlands.

My son had French in primary but as in any state primary we cannot take it seriously. Honestly, he learnt more through Duolingo than school where they only learn tiny tiny towards annual Lingua Franca. They teach here in primaries so nobody would learn anything.

The only places where a child can learn languages at a good level are private schools like Lycee Francais, The German School and similar.

Yes. I actually learnt both Russian and Spanish as an adult so I think I have quite a good perspective for this thread!

Russian has definitely helped me get around in other Slavic speaking countries due to recognising cognates in a lot of core words (not always but enough, eg in Czech voda, piva, syr, stary most etc).

GCSE in any language won’t give you any level of fluency or the skills to travel. It’s not designed for that. GCSEs just give you the fundamentals and get you used to learning a language, particularly grammar - which, as you know, Russian has plenty of. It’s also easier to learn a second alphabet at a younger age, and pronouncing difficult sounds which I think Russian has more of than Spanish does (from the perspective of English speakers). With Russian you really do need a teacher but Spanish is quite easy to learn self-directed.

Ours were at private,
Although personally I’m not up for criticising state education in languages or anything else for that matter.

@CatStoleMyChocolate

Agree with this. Spanish is really common now & Russian would set him apart. Russian is considered as far more academic. It’s so easy to pick Spanish up later on.

Absolutely
You want your CV to stand out from the crowd have something unusual on it. 👍

I cannot speak about private because there are many various schools in that bag. Tbh, overall ability to speak foreign languages by native English speakers is far from ideal unless they are bilingual. The example is the father of my child who had French for 5 years at school. I had it for 4 years.. Each time when we are in France I am the one who communicates there if French is needed. This surprises him a lot. He cannot put a sentence together
He attended 2 years of Polish - 2 h per week. Do you think he speaks it? Hahah... btw a very intelligent scientist.

Russian has definitely helped me get around in other Slavic speaking countries due to recognising cognates in a lot of core words (not always but enough, eg in Czech voda, piva, syr, stary most etc).

Most of the people in Poland and Czech actually speak good English. The younger the better. From 1989 it has been at school and the demand for Russian language teachers decreased.

English is such a universal language it’s to the countries detriment.
Speaking German in Germany or Chinese in Hongkong people would respond in English because ‘they want to practice’.

Many people I know learnt their English from watching stuff on the TV. It’s only recently that we can change the language of some films etc on our tvs so maybe if people are interested in speaking a second language then there is more opportunity to hear it spoken now.

apologies for the derail OP, I’m still camp Russian 😀

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn He probably doesn’t have the right intelligence to learn a language. Science isn’t the same. MFLs use the brain differently.

If anyone does Russian GCSE, that, on its own, won’t get you far. A level and then Russian as part of a degree gets you much much further. It’s definitely of interest to the civil service and associated institutions plus broadcasters and journalists etc. However if only doing MFL at gcse, does it matter? I’d go with the better teacher and look at results. I bet the brighter dc do Russian!

It’s definitely of interest to the civil service and associated institutions plus broadcasters and journalists etc.

Yeah as if they didn't have millions of people who speak Russian up to a native level in this country so they need somebody with A level. Furthermore, there is a second generation that is perfectly bilingual.
I have a young native English speaker neighbour who studied Italian. She works selling radiators now. She says that with her Italian spoken as a non native Italian she never stood a chance professionally as there are many people who speak native both languages and with the evolution of AI the demand is really small.

He probably doesn’t have the right intelligence to learn a language. Science isn’t the same. MFLs use the brain differently.

Excuses. There are many scientists who speak foregin languages. The way they teach languages in UK is to blame for. And it is a common complaint.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn So you think our intelligence service is crammed full of Russians? This was a comment about the employability of someone highly intelligent with a Russian degree. There are doors it can open.

My DD has a degree in French and Italian. She doesn’t sell radiators - she’s a barrister. Doors can open if you are good enough. No MFL on its own guarantees anything but I bet a degree in Russian or Arabic from Oxford is not going to hold you back from a decent career. Having more to offer than the MFLs is what’s needed but not using the MFL at work is common. It’s like any academic humanities degree. A vehicle for a career. A launchpad.

The DS here should do which MFL interests him. My DD did 2 MFLs for GCSE and A level. Ultimately that’s better so I’d say Spanish and Russian!

So you think our intelligence service is crammed full of Russians?

Slavic people who had Russian at schools from the early age and after 1 year of learning they are in the place where an English person after 5. Do you understand that for me Russian was very easy because I am Polish native speaker? Same for Ukrainians, Czech etc.

So she has a degree in law or in French or Italian? I don't have a degree in English but I would say I speak it very well, because in the end what is the purpose of a degree like this if it is not teaching, translating ( well, now most of the job does AI)?

so I’d say Spanish and Russian!
I would stick to one until mastering it at a C2 level and that requires living in the country where the language used.

what is the purpose of a degree like this if it is not teaching, translating

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn you should know that even before the advent of AI, the vast vast majority of those who did a degree in MFL did not go into teaching or translating. I did such a degree many years ago and I and my contemporaries went into a range of roles, from supermarket management to journalism, from working for charities to financial services. None of us AFAIK thought that our degrees had no purpose. Many many degrees (apart from obviously things like medicine, law or graphic design) do not necessarily lead to a career in that field. That's fine.

A degree is a marker of ability and commitment to gain a higher education qualification and as such "a degree" [in any subject] is often requested by employers.

I really don't know why it seems to be expected that those with a degree in MFL should work directly in that field (just as for some reason a GCSE in MFL is supposed to leave the student fluent). GCSE MFL, as others say here, is a stepping stone to more study of the subject, if wanted – just like GCSE maths. And a degree in it can be used as any other degree. No one seems to think all history graduates should be working as archivists, or all maths graduates should be the next Einstein.

(And I speak as someone who did become an MFL teacher haha! but it's not obligatory)

Like a previous poster, I've studied both and even as someone who was thought at school to have an aptitude for languages, I can say that Russian is very hard to learn and very hard to be good at. Spanish is relatively far easier to learn and easier to be good at. Unless someone has an absolute passion for Russian culture and life, or knowledge of the language becomes a necessity for some highly unusual job, I would not advise them to study it.

Russian is a MFL that marks you out as a bit special. It’s hard.

The huge advantage of doing 2xMFL, if you are good at them, is that you go to a degree without needing ab initio. It’s easier! As @clary says, it’s academic and definitely shows commitment. Fewer and fewer in this country can do MFLs and we should support those that can. MFLs are not vocational for many but Russian would not hold anyone back from a decent career. The GCSE is just a start.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn If someone doesn’t have a degree, some jobs are out. A Polish person might have great Russian, but if they don’t meet the educational requirements of a career, they won’t get in. Many MFL degrees here are 2 languages. Unfortunately Russia is out but MFL undergrads do go abroad to learn languages.

Totally agree with @clary here. Study of language is an academic discipline, and is about far more than whether you're going to use it on holiday or become a translator. I have two DC, one of whom did four languages at GCSE (two modern, two classical) and the other of whom is currently doing three (one modern, two classical). Neither of them has a specific ambition to become a translator or to specifically use their language in their job (though they wouldn't rule it out either), and neither chose those options because of holiday possibilities. They both just enjoy studying languages and are good at it. In fact, the one who's more interested in travel and speaking is the one who chose Russian, because he loves it. Who cares if it will be a little harder for him to use it on holiday than the one doing German and French? He's interested in it and enjoys it, and that's so much more important in keeping him motivated to study. I've just been looking at university options with the other one, and a classical, MFL or combined course is definitely on the table. Again, because those are the areas of study he's interested in, rather than because of specific language careers. Having seen the very varied and successful careers of the MFL and classics students I knew at university, I have absolutely no concerns about the job options that these kinds of courses might lead to.

Many many degrees (apart from obviously things like medicine, law or graphic design) do not necessarily lead to a career in that field. That's fine.
No shit sherlock, sorry I mean @clary . I have done in early 90ties 5 years of Art History and M.A. even in that subject. God only knows why...

is often requested by employers.
Not really. But a relevant to the work field.
That is why I studied further.

A first degree doesn’t have to be obviously relevant. The skills learnt from studying are useful for many jobs and the other attributes dc gather as they mature are also valuable. It really is not just about studying for vocational qualifications. We need people with a variety of skills and attributes in the workforce.