Spanish or Russian GCSE?

[ispecialiseinthis]

My DC GCSE options deadline is coming up and, as with most 14yo, they don’t currently have a career in mind.
The school will let them do a maximum of 10 GCSEs - 6 core subjects (triple science, English language and literature, maths). Doing both languages is not really an option, as it will mean dropping another option.

Any advice how to choose between the two languages? TIA

Many many roles in the world of work require a degree. A friend of mine who is very experienced in their field has no degree and thus often does not apply for jobs they could very well do, unfortunately, as they are closed off. Unless I badger them to apply on the basis that their experience is worth just as much...

So yes, I stand by my statement that many employers are looking for a degree. It does not always need to be relevant to the work role. The subject of my degree is very rarely sought tbh but it ticks the box of “graduate”.

When it comes to competition for a job, the one who wins is the one who has most relevant experience, and training/education.
I have never got a job because of my M.A.in Art History because it is not relevant to my job. But my MBA came useful.

Most 21 year olds won’t have an MBA. Most go into a job with a standard degree. That might be History, English or MFL. DDs friend works for Sothebys with a History of Art degree. She got the job directly because of her degree and her expertise. Many MBAs are sponsored by employers. Everyone I know with one got it via this route and had proved themselves worthy of the expenditure. It’s entirely separate from a 21 year old starting work. It’s quite clear excellent people take non vocational degrees and get top
jobs without two masters degrees. Other skills are valued.

Not always. My DSis got a PA job partly because she had a music degree and the previous post-holder was also a music graduate. Her boss happened to have a high opinion of musicians. That job was the start of her current career, which has nothing to do with music.

I knew of another boss who liked candidates who’d worked for their own families’ businesses. He believed that the best employees of all were those who’d worked in their parents’ restaurants.

I still believe it is more worth it to study a subject that will have a direct application and relevance to the profession rather than just to fancy a boss preferences.

I would not like my son make a mistake as I did.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn So no one should study History, MFL, Geography, Psychology, Sociology, English, Philosophy, Classics and other subjects because the majority don’t get jobs related to the subject? What about all the employers who just look for high class graduates and train them on their grad employment schemes? Many brighter DC actually take these subjects. Why would employers ignore them? Accountants and Lawyers come from a variety of educational backgrounds so doing a vocational degree doesn’t always get the degree holder above other degree holders.

DC should do what is best for employment but some degrees look good but aren’t necessarily better than a traditional academic degree.

So no one should study History, MFL, Geography, Psychology, Sociology, English, Philosophy, Classics and other subjects because the majority don’t get jobs related to the subject?

There are jobs directly related to those fields. There is huge demand for teachers, psychologists, institutes workers etc.

I personally regret I studied Art History for 5 years. I could have studied something more practical. I have never been suited for a job in museum or a castle etc.

Once you're an adult, no employer really cares about your GCSE's outside of maths and english.

I am believer that at this age, if it's not something they want to take to a-level especially, they should study what they enjoy most. It's important for them to understand learning for the enjoyment of learning.

My son will be doing Russian for GCSE as he honestly enjoys learning Russian. he is very STEM minded, and enjoys the challenge of the different alphabet, and I think that will help him in the long run. He is dropping French as he doesn't enjoy French. As things stand, he isn't interested in doing a language beyond GCSE, and honestly, GCSE level language isn't enough for any useful conversation outside of asking where the train station is :D

We're talking about GCSE though, not a Masters. Asking if someone should do Spanish or Russian at degree level is a very very different conversation than which they should do at GCSE.

Oh, and my sons school is a very normal state school, and has 2 or 3 Russian teachers. They have been offering Russian (along with Spanish, French and German) for at least 20 years.

We're talking about GCSE though, not a Masters. Asking if someone should do Spanish or Russian at degree level is a very very different conversation than which they should do at GCSE.

Of course, but the conversation went beyond that as some suggested here that GCSE can be a start to a degree in that field.

GCSE level language isn't enough for any useful conversation outside of asking where the train station is :D

Exactly. And if somebody does not have a clear preference as your son then my advice is Spanish because it is around 45 perc easier to learn it for an English speaker ( link above why).

Oh come on. If every history graduate became a teacher there certainly wouldn’t be enough jobs! And philosophy? Yeh lots of roles as the next Bertrand Russell.

Very few psych grads become psychologists- it’s a long road. @TizerorFizz is quite right - lots of employers are looking for a degree and the best one to do is one you will enjoy and do well in. No point studying engineering if you hate it. But then I am a massive advocate of HE for its own sake, for the love of learning.

I find the idea that people should only study things with some kind of direct application really depressing. I think people should study things they like studying, personally.

@clary @SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn

I do understand the strong desire for dc to get a job in some cultures and I’m keen on grads getting the best career they can possibly get but some degrees are questionable. Some are expensive for poor job outcomes. Ones with strong academic rigour do allow dc to
progress to jobs though and dc are adaptable in the workforce.

I remember my local Sri Lankan garage owner being aghast my dd was going to do MFLs. Like others he queries their value. Why not engineering like her dad or law? She converted to law but it’s not necessary to study vocational subjects at degree level except for some in the stem umbrella. Many other grads can work as accountants, qualify in HR, marketing, and communications etc. We cannot limit degrees to vocations only.

Russian is useful if you want to work for the security services. I was once waiting in the reception at Thames House (for a boring IT-related meeting) and there were half a dozen graduates all waiting for their interviews and happily chatting among each other in Russian.

Not everyone is just looking for the easy option though.

Most doing Russian gcse will be native speakers so grade standards high. Go for Spanish.

About 20% in my sons year doing Russian would have had any knowledge of it prior to year 7.

DD did Russian GCSE and got a high grade. Nobody in her class had done it before Y7.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn Only around 20% of psychology grads ever work in anything related to psychology. Thousands graduate every year and cannot get a job directly in the field. However they do go on to do useful work elsewhere. It’s important to allow a range of academic degrees to flourish and many will be non vocational.

Most MFL GCSEs have young people taking them with significant prior knowledge. If dc can get a high grade without this, they are smart and have not taken the easy route. Good for them!

Oh please Tizzeror Fizz. People in Ukraine , Poland, Czech are here in millions and trust me many of them have more than BA degrees, many have masters acquired here. The job market is always very competitive. People study language degrees not only in UK. I thought it is obvious.

Exactly. And this is a very very good point. My son will be taking GCSE in Polish. He is bilingual and attends every Saturday Polish school since he was 4. Polish bilingual kids get 8 or 9 in most cases at GCSE. The same applies to Russian. The benchmark is high because of bilinguals.

Surely this is true of any language though? I would say there are more bilingual Spanish speakers at school than bilingual Russian. My older son is doing Spanish and gets better marks than the Spanish bilingual kids in his class. A friends son who is bilingual in Spanish struggled with GCSE as it's so different to just "speaking it normally"

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn I said if they didn’t have a degree. Of course plenty don’t but plenty will not. My point was to get a better job, quite often you need a degree which you seem to agree with.

6% of the Uk population are from EU countries. ALL of them. They are not all working age or indeed working or degree holders. I’m entirely happy for them to be here. I don’t really understand what you are getting at. Most people here from the EU won’t have MFL degrees. What qualifications they do have is irrelevant to the conversation. They are probably here for better money and to take advantage of our education system if you add to be believed.