Any experience of Kings Maths School vs LAE for 6th form?

[JusteanBiscuits]

My son has applied to KCLMS for 6th form and also to LAE Stratford.

He wants to study Maths at University, and truly loves the subject. His heart is set on KCLMS, but as that is entirely maths / physics, I wonder if going to LAE (his second choice) would be better for the all round experience? Meeting a wider variety of people, a much wider selection of extra curricular clubs etc. I worry the excitement at 16 of being immersed in maths might wear off, and being somewhere with a wider curriculum might be better?

Any experience would be appreciated. Thanks

@JusteanBiscuits distance isn't one of the criteria for LAE. Is your child's state school in Newham?

Oh, I know distance isn't in the criteria - we're not in Newham, but not far and still in London. I guess I meant this other person isn't even technically in London. It was just a comment. Hard to wonder why he would get offered offered a place if my son doesn't! Other than his Mum wrote his application form for him whereas my son did all his own.

Just feeling frustrated for my son I think.

Being in or out of London isn't relevant. Do you know them well enough to know whether they have any of the higher statuses in the list, e.g. looked after, refugee, carer, etc?

Only the best eight GCSEs are used, so if the other child has eight 9's then they would equal eight of your son's 9's.

Also, did the other child do any exams a year early? Presumably attained grades beat predicted grades.

It's worth asking them what their tie-breaker is for applicants with the same grades.

Their policy would not be legal if it was a school sixth form, but 16-19 schools are a greyer area because they don't have to meet the admissions code. Still worth asking questions though, and pointing out the flaws in their policy. They limit their grounds of appeal to not following the policy, so if you think they haven't followed it consider appealing.

And yes, I did say that I knew that distance wasn't a factor, but that it was a comment. Just a comment.

Other person predicted was 5x9 and 4x8. And no, they're not looked after etc etc. Yes, we know them well enough to know. But yes, they did computer science a year early (got a 7) so I guess the benefit of a private education helped there.

@JusteanBiscuits@JusteanBiscuitsweird that he got an offer and your DS didn't for the same subjects. Your DS's predicted grades are same as my son, although his subjects are more unusual. To be fair, the mum doing application form would have made no difference as there wasn't even a place for a personal statement. It was very detailed info like doctor's address, emails of contacts, picture of passport etc. I sat next to my kids while they did it, just to spot any errors and help with info they wouldn't know (my parent's email address!).

What would have made a difference is the reference from the school. Perhaps your school didn't do one in time or the other child's reference just stood out more? Also, did your DS apply for 3 or 4 A levels? I think I recall them saying they expected 4 on an application if one subject was Further Maths, but my DD and DS didn't choose FM.

My DD still hasn't heard either but her grades are much lower. 7-8 and a couple of 9s. My DS's cut off for acceptance is today. After that, I suppose they may send out some more offers if some of the first batch have rejected.

I'm still astonished at 1,200 offers for 275 places so we're not holding our breath. Even your son's friend, if he doesn't get 8 x 9s on results day might be out.

Applying to schools is a balancing act. My son applied to 'only' three schools and that involved more than 10 visits for open evenings, taster sessions, pre-entrance test prep sessions, the entrance tests and interviews. I had to take time off work for several of those.

I've seen some kids applying to the maths schools say that they had between five and eight other schools in mind, including likes of LAE.

It's a huge investment in time and you did what you thought was right by applying to two schools.

We don't have the option of private, so our choices were a lot more limited. I wish he'd applied for Harris Westminster and LAE Tottenham too though.

As I've said before, I didn't even go to 6th form or do a-levels, I left school at 16, so this is a WHOLE new world for me. I didn't even know there were such selective sixth forms till a year ago!!

I wish the schools gave feedback too!! I'd really like to know what it is that is preventing him getting an offer.

The teacher who wrote his reference sent me a copy and it is GLOWING! And, while he doesn't know this, he will be receiving the 4 awards at their award ceremony after Easter, including the over all, school wide, award.

It may be that your DS is better off where he is then. We only applied for LAE and DS's current school. At his current school, DS is a big fish in a small pond which is actually quite valuable. The school usually get 1 or 2 into Oxbridge and they really pour a lot into those kids as it also promotes the school and the sixth form. I have a lot of time for head of sixth form in current school. I think my DS may get lost at LAE, albeit more stretched in lessons. There's a lot to be said just for confidence going into exams and interviews, and I think he may be better placed for that at current school.

He doesn't want to be big fish in small pond though is the point! He wants to be stretched further than he is at that school. He's bored there to be honest, especially in maths. Like so many schools, they have specific support for kids wanting to go into medicine / dentistry, but nothing set up for Oxbridge. All kids have to undertake an additional study, but won't accept the COMPOS course he is doing as "Massive Open Online Courses". The other options are things like sports leadership (he is already a qualified coach for his favoured sport anyway and has no interest in doing it for football which is what the school offers), DofE (he stopped after Bronze as he wanted to focus on other things) or maths studies. It's a great 6th form for those getting 5-7's, but not a great 6th form for those wanting to really excel and be pushed much harder.

Like I say, I am just frustrated for him. And venting a bit. We've never been in a position to be able to pay for private (even though he has begged for years to go to a private school as he see's them as more academic!!), and I do feel guilty about that. The largest scholarship offered around here is 20% off which still leaves it out of our reach. I wish his school had told him about all the other opportunities 6th form wise so we would have known.

If he wanted to be stretched, why didn't he apply for 4 A levels? Maths and Further Maths when you're already doing maths outside seems a bit restrictive, especially if you can get 9s in English? Geography? MFL? Biology? Etc. Perhaps if he stays at his current school he should do 4 A levels and show more versatility. Even economics or business.

To be fair, my twins school said nothing about other sixth forms. And yes, it's a grade 5-7 sixth form as most of the higher flyers leave. They're is an outstanding sixth form 5 mins from this school but my eldest went there and I wasn't impressed so we didn't bother applying but many who don't have firsthand experience leave this school to go to that school. Actually my DD just found out about LAE from a friend so we thought we'd give it a go as its so different from their current school. Other local schools aren't hugely different. In fact this academic year a girl from their school got into LAE then left and came back to their school!

I wouldn't worry too much. Your DS will do well wherever he goes, he will always have a gift of being excellent in Maths and I think he'll succeed in his current school too. Maybe a degree apprenticeship. If he is ambitious and clever, he'll be fine and do well wherever he is.

And offers aren't places at LAE so just because others have offers doesn't mean that much.

He did apply for 4 A-levels - the 4th a-level was different between the two boys which is why I didn't outline it. His current school don't offer the a-level he chose as 4th a-level at LAE which is polar opposite to maths and physics but an area of interest for him. But Oxbridge don't take a 4th a level into account anyway.

Having gone through high school education, the whole "a clever kid will do well where ever they go" I find utterly ridiculous. No, what and how kids are taught differs VASTLY in schools, and also the people surrounding them makes a massive difference. This isn't about him "doing well", it's about him enjoying education. I went to a really really very shit school and hated every minute of it. I got mainly a's at GCSE simply because I was clever, not through any excellent teaching. I wasn't shown a possible future, so just did what everyone else did. Left at 16 and got a job!

But I hadn't realised LAE give out SO many more offers than places. What happens if they rock on up results day and find out they haven't got a place?

"He did apply for 4 A-levels - the 4th a-level was different between the two boys which is why I didn't outline it."

@JusteanBiscuits that is likely to be what made the difference. The 4th A level may have already filled up with students that had higher priority.

"But I hadn't realised LAE give out SO many more offers than places"

If they were being totally fair they would give a conditional offer to all applicants, then apply their criteria in August. Cutting down the number at this early stage helps to reduce the disappointment later but, as I said up-thread, it's not very fair on the young people who outperform their subjective predictions.

You've applied for two of the most oversubscribed 16+ schools in London, and your son is competing with many other bright children, so it's good that you have a decent fallback option.

Assuming I've got the right school their website says they are still reviewing applications and everyone should hear by the end of March

You don't rock up on results day to LAE. You submit your results to them online. They then tell you later on that day whether to come in to enrol (also the day after). If you're not invited to enrol, that's that. I assume there's a large number of kids with offers who don't get in after results day as I can't see very many of the 1200 who have accepted their place then refusing it later - and they need to reduce by nearly 1000 places! It will come to the very highest results.

I went to a pretty dodgy school and I HATED it till sixth form. Then I had an amazing time. It was tiny but so much fun and all the people there wanted to be there. The bullies had left, the teachers were more like friends. I found my people and we had a great time.

But if you have to wait to hear if you have a place till end of day your will have missed enrollment for other sixth forms, and you could end up with no sixth form!!!

If there's any risk of that then people should enroll for school A at the start of the day then withdraw if/when they get a place from school B.

Is your son's current school sixth form oversubscribed? Is there a risk of his courses filling up? If so, make sure he registers on results day even if he does get the provisional offer from LAE.

It's an uncoordinated system, so chaotic.

I need a head exploding emoji!!

You just play the game! It’s the only way.

It's hard when no one tells you what the game is or what the rules are!!! I thought, if you got offered a place at LAE and met the results requirement, that you had a place. I didn't know that, even if you exceed their requirement, you can still end up without a place!!!

One of the reasons he didn't apply to Brampton was the whole "first come first served" on results day thing.

The 16-19 schools make their own rules, the 11-18 schools are meant to follow the rules in the Admissions Code, but frequently don't. Like with any game, the savviest will win. Sad but true.

Yup. There needs to be guidelines and information about this!!

Exactly! I had to start a thread about that on here as I was so confused. I was also under the impression that if you got an offer and made the grades then you were in. I had no idea until there were no grades attached to the offer, so I was thinking: how does this work then? I hate the idea of messing his current school about and enrolling then pulling out IF he makes it, and also the extra stress on results day of not knowing.

I went to sixth form but I just stayed at my school, as did DS1. I didn't even have to achieve certain grades in those days. DS1 did need a 7 for maths but we didn't even have a backup plan as my friend said just to sort out college afterwards. I have no idea of how to 'play the game' or what 'the game' even is. I regret DS1 getting his 7 and doing A levels as he'd have been better off on a college course he actually enjoyed and may have done much better. He's now working in retail. DS2 will go to uni regardless of where he goes to sixth form, as that is what he wants to do and he's capable of it. My priority is that life is enjoyable for them and they are happy, even if there are some unhappy times (there always will be and living with those is essential too).

The rules are different everywhere (between institutions and areas) which is why there’s not a handy list of them! You read the rules for the places that you’re interested in and decide on a strategy to play by.