Any experience of Kings Maths School vs LAE for 6th form?

[JusteanBiscuits]

My son has applied to KCLMS for 6th form and also to LAE Stratford.

He wants to study Maths at University, and truly loves the subject. His heart is set on KCLMS, but as that is entirely maths / physics, I wonder if going to LAE (his second choice) would be better for the all round experience? Meeting a wider variety of people, a much wider selection of extra curricular clubs etc. I worry the excitement at 16 of being immersed in maths might wear off, and being somewhere with a wider curriculum might be better?

Any experience would be appreciated. Thanks

Does he have offers? The decision may be made for him. But if he is lucky enough to get offers for both then it obviously needs to be his decision.

KCMS has lots of extra-curricular and supra-curricula activity, though obviously everyone is mostly into maths. Have you been to the open evening or looked at their website? I was very impressed with the young people I met when I visited. They weren't stereotypically nerdy (if that's what you're worrying about). In addition to the exam (for which the results are heavily contextualised) they interview in the same style as Oxbridge, so it's tough to get into.

Yes, did the virtual open evening for KCLMS and going to the in person open day on Saturday. Got virtual open evening for LAE next week. He also has entrance exam for KCLMS in December. So yes, obviously it all depends on whether he gets an offer, but on practice versions he has done excellently.

The commute will also be taken into account (40 mins for LAE vs 75 mins for KCLMS), but not knowing anyone who has gone to either, just looking for thoughts of small, very focused school versus larger school with a wider focus.

Oh, and not worried about "typical nerd" at all! He has also been accepted onto COMPOS which is Oxbridge based and very competitive to get on, so hoping they will provide some mentoring for interview!

Its a very new world to me, and it the sort of thing that we will discuss as a family, so trying to hear views from experience. He is completely in love with the idea of KCLMS though - so very different to me at his age!

@JusteanBiscuits good to hear. However if he doesn't get an offer from KCLMS it may not be because he didn't do well on the test, because the scores are heavily adjusted according to Widening Participation criteria which may or may not work in his favour. There's some info about it online here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/kings_maths_school_admissions_po.

Thats really interesting, thanks. Seems like his parents not having degrees will work in his favour, but the rest is likely to disadvantage him (his current school is top 20% for both progress 8 and attainment 8 - we are just lucky that it is also our local (non grammar) high school).

The "worst case scenario" is staying on for the 6th form at current school, which would be perfectly fine. It is just nice to look at best case scenario sometimes!

My DD went to KCLMS and absolutely loved it. There were lots of clubs and societies she could take part in. As a parent what I liked was Fri afternoon was sports but you didn't have to be sporty or into team sports - you could go for a walk round the park or go bouldering. There were lots of cultural activities too. What my DD liked most is she wasn't categorised as a maths nerd; she could be herself with no label.

She went on to do maths at uni and still loves it. She's found that all the extra KCLMS maths curriculum prepared her really well for university.

I was really impressed that over 40% of the current students are female.

At the virtual open evening son got quite excited about the fact there is a cryptic crossword club 😂

My son loves Maths and would be thrilled to go to KCLMS for sixth form. He is at an independent school though and I am not sure whether he will even have a chance to get in given the admission criteria. Does anyone know the percentage of their intake who are from a private school?

I asked and my DD said she went to the cryptic crossword class. She said that first thing in morning when people came in they would sit together and do the cryptic crossword in papers that students had picked up. Good luck.

@Ratherubbish I know a girl who went there from private school and was very happy at KCLMS - found it far better and nicer than her private school. She was a very high achiever in terms of maths Olympiads / competitions etc. They do take children from private schools but given their criteria, it is quite possible that they do need to be especially good in terms of prior achievements (which makes sense if they have received more support and enrichment at their private school).

The criteria say they want to prioritise those children most likely to benefit which would mean those who are talented and may not get the adequate level of challenge at their current school (probably those at comprehensive schools that don't offer Further Maths A-level and the like). I assume those from private schools would have to have done very well in Maths Olympiads and score very highly in the entrance test to be considered. I would give it a try.

You could also ask KCLMS about their percentage private school intake. I wonder if there is a way to find out from progress data - those coming from private would not have GCSE results in the system but at first glance I could not work it out on that DoE website.

My eldest is good at maths, I might quite like him to go there, it might be good for him, but I don't think I'd ever persuade him to leave his current secondary that's a few miles away, he's quite settled/in his comfort zone in terms of having a (to my mind unexceptional in terms of both quality and quantity) group of friends & so on.

I suppose if I was to nit-pick I'd maybe say that the intake looks a bit narrow to my mind, in terms of subject choice, sex, and demographics, but I can't say I'd really mind so much that given that for a very selective sixth form we're mostly talking about kids who've really got strong credentials in STEM subjects, rather than, as you get at most of the outer London grammars, mostly kids who've been pressured into doing those subjects through parental expectations regardless of where their real talents and interests lie.

Have you also thought about Imperial Maths School? It's on the site of Woodhouse College (where many pupils do a 4th A Level) so there is access to a wider sixth form experience, and so may be a good compromise. Several of the teachers are ex-Kings. As it's less than 2 years old, it's not yet as competitive to get into as Kings.

For Kings - the widening participating measure is a huge part of the score. I expect that it may be close to impossible for privately educated boys to get in, even with 100% in the entrance test, unless they have some of the WP measures Kings adjust for - e.g. FSM, first in family at uni, and ethnicity. Given the difference between females applying v. acceptances, I suspect the gender uplift to be high.

(DS sat the entrance test and was in the top 10% of scorers, but didn't get an interview after the scores were scaled for widening participation. He is state-educated and has significant disabilities, including a full EHCP, but there is no adjustment for disability, only gender, ethnicity and income.)

42% of the current students are female. And the choice of subjects is narrow because it's a maths school!

Imperial has been discounted as 1 hr 45 mins on public transport! I don't think that length of journey would be good for him and having a life outside of school.

I think, sadly, the widening participation measure will be a huge block for him. being white male and our family not on any benefits. Unfortunately husband went to University (though no degree. very long story and one of the reasons I dislike my mother in law!), though he will be the first on my side ever!! None of mine, nor his, generation have gone to university on my side. I didn't even do sixth form which is why its all so new to me.

The only positive thing is that they are expanding and taking more students next year.. 100ish as opposed to 70ish.

Does LAE Stratford have the widening participation criteria?

Not exactly. And no entrance exam. But GCSE results, if you get minimum needed, are the last criteria

1. applications on behalf of looked after children
2. applicants who have recognised refugee status or humanitarian protection in the UK or is in the UK and seeking asylum
3. applicants exercising exceptional carer responsibilities
4. applicants eligible for Free School Meals
5. applicants attending a state funded secondary school in Newham at the time the application for admission is made
6. applicants with a parent or carer employed by LAE for two or more years at the time the application for admission is made
7. applicants with the highest levels of predicted attainment)

@JusteanBiscuits thank you. I didn't know that. DD is interested but doesn't fit any of the categories. It's only a 2 min commute for us but we're not in Newham (used to be!). She will prob do well but not all 9s kind of well. Might rethink that!

We're just a little further down central Line, so also very easy for us. There is also LAE Tottenham...

Brampton Manor is another school that's been recommended to us as having an amazing 6th form. And Westminster Harris is where a friend's daughter has got onto - but son not keen on it.

Oops I meant 25min commute!

I suppose I just think that 16 is a really recklessly young age to be giving up entirely on all subjects that involve any kind of essay writing The US has a relatively broad high school curriculum, with students in the main continuing to study at least bits of English & similar until they leave at age 18. And they don't have a problem turning out plenty of good mathematicians and scientists. Focusing exclusively on STEM from 16 to me risks turning it kids who easily become bored and/or plain boring. I know that this isn't by any means exclusive to kings school, and that lots of kids in regular schools will choose those options but having an entire school populated by no other types to me doesn't sound very balanced.

70 minutes is a horrendous commute.

Does your dc do many other activities out of school?

Our dc2 is a maths whizz too but he also does lots of extra activities both in and out of school.

Doing 3 A levels and Welsh Bacc is full on. He’s keeping up well and using his free lessons wisely but he definitely wouldn’t be if he was commuting for 2 1/2 hours a day (12 1/2 hours a week!) .

"I suppose I just think that 16 is a really recklessly young age to be giving up entirely on all subjects that involve any kind of essay writing"

@puffyisgood , they have economics on their core and extended curriculum, and they all do an extended research project too.

They're also adding in philosophy from September 2025 too.

He does, he does sport. But 3/4 of that is actually halfway between KCLMS and home, so we've already worked that out.

Thank you @ncsurrey22 . We are ethnic minorities but I suspect not from one that would qualify as disadvantaged. Don't fit any of the other widening participation criteria. It's a bit of a shame as I think it would be a good fit, DS does qualify for the MO every year. I will try email the school to get a better idea, and look up to see if Imperial's admission criteria would be less weighted against him.