Separated parents can’t agree on secondary school

[Rance105]

My partner’s eldest is due to start secondary school next year (2025) and applications are due in soon. He and his ex wife can’t agree on which school their son should attend.

DP wants him to go to a school within walking distance of us. It’s a great school and we actually moved to the area in order to make sure the kids would be in catchment.

His ex wants him to go to a secondary school which most of his friends will attend. She no longer lives in the area, and we’re also out of catchment. It’s historically been undersubscribed, I suspect because their results are so poor.

She says that it’s all about the child’s wishes and is dead set on that school being their first choice.

We disagree and believe that he’ll get a far better education at DP’s first choice of school. He wouldn’t be able to travel to the other school under his own steam when with us (50/50 custody, one week on, one week off) so it would logistically be a nightmare to get him there with three other children to consider. We also can’t see the logic of sending a child to school in a town where he no longer lives with either parent. He’s a nice kid and makes friends easily.

Neither side is backing down. My question is - what happens if it remains at a stalemate? What factors would a court take into account if it was to get that far? The child benefit is paid to her but is split 50/50 if that makes a difference. Any advice would be so appreciated.

I think your DP's best tactic is to start negotiating now on how best to structure DSS's life if he goes to his mum's preferred school. The current 50:50 with 1 week with mum and 1 with dad won't work any more because the school isn't commutable from your home.

An arrangement of every other weekend (3 nights) with you plus one midweek night each week would be 5 nights per fortnight =36% of the time. If the proprtions are pretty much reversed during school holidays so that he's with you most of the time but with his mum every other weekend + one midweek night per fortnight (with some juggling when either of you wants to actually go away for a full week) that won't be quite 50:50 but more 45:55 - pretty close. If that works happily for all concerned then that's fine. If mum is going to kick up a fuss about any such change of arrangements then that helps with the schools decision as a school can be chosen which doesn't require a massive upheaval in contact arrangements

OP has set out a number of advantages of the school and yet you make it all about her wanting an easy transport!

The school is better, the child makes friends easily and would therefore have friends, the child can be independent more easily and gt public transport to and from school, the child may not even continue to live where they are currently with mum as she rents

However, a court would pay great attention to the child's wishes, albeit they may change over time, he clearly liked both schools

If the school of the exP is a fair old walk and bus for DC, is she actually in the catchment area to get a place anyway? Just because his classmates are going, and are in catchment, doesn’t mean her postcode is - have you checked this and the likelihood of his getting in?

That’s what I’m really interested in getting to the bottom of, whether the quality of the school is a factor in how they decide

Given that there is no way you would get a court date before the application deadline, it's irrelevant how the court would decide. You've left it FAR too late now.

She’s not in catchment, she’s further away than we are. The only reason he might get a place is that the school is always undersubscribed and his current primary school is a feeder school.

DP’s solicitor said that although there’s no way a court would hear the case before the application deadline, they’d be able to get a decision before he actually started at secondary school, which would then be upheld. I don’t really know how it works but would hate for it to get to court. And the problem is that you can’t even have make an informed decision about the schools until you’ve seen them, and those visits and open days have only just happened.

So, if she insists applying there is a chance he will NOT be allocated a place (because children outside the area will still be allocated places on proximity and other criteria such as siblings and SEN) and DC will be allocated at whatever school has places - ie, he may not get a place at either of the schools she and your DP are considering?

Frankly, that is barking. I’d probably call the LEA and chat with them to understand what the actual chances are that he would get a place based on previous years’ applications and see if they would advise your DPs school being a better bet? Am sure they take enquiries from separated parents in dispute, so they should be willing to give pragmatic advice on where best to apply.

I think everyone would be reluctant to change the contact arrangements, the current set up works for everyone really well, most importantly the kids. I could drive him to the other school, but it would be better for him to make his own way there in terms of being independent and also just the practical side of getting 4 kids to 4 schools and then commuting for an hour 😱although my current school run is already an hour and a half, so maybe 😂🤷‍♀️

The problem is that the decision needs to be before the application deadline.

if your preferred school is oversubscribed and she puts down the other school on the form.
then the school/LEA won’t consider him for your preferred school
he will be offered a place at the undersubscribed school
then if the court make a decision I don’t believe they can force a full school to take an extra child on, it would just be counted as a late application. You’d have to appeal like anyone else.

though i don’t know what what happen if the court made a decision between form submission and the date where places are announced.

@Rance105 you are missing my point.
You are currently saying that if your DP loses this argument then you personally will take the hit of spending hours every morning and evening facilitating a nightmare journey so thar no one else has to deal with the consequences. So of course mum is happy to insist on her choice because there will be no fallout for her.

So take a step back and say that you aren't actually going to bear the brunt of the shitshow this long-distance school will set up for you.

If you don't agree to facilitate then what would happen realistically?

Of course you can and should force an 11 year old to go to a school of your choice. He’s 11 not 18! You can see the bigger picture, which he doesn’t have the life experience or maturity to understand. You may have to take it to court OP if you can’t agree.

Upheld in terms of a decision, but that doesnt mean there will be a space at the relevant school anymore, so it would be somewhat pointless

Also, what is your definition of a fair old walk, in miles and minutes, waht do you mean

Presumably the child cant get to school, if he missed time and is unauthorised absence, both parents fined. Theoretically

Or, ex takes it back to court to argue for a change in custody arrangements as father is not ensuring child gets to school during the time he is with dad.

Realistically, if they can’t agree (which I don’t think they will), then they will both apply separately with their own addresses with their own preferred schools. I really don’t know what happens from there, but the application to our local school, which we’re well in catchment for, will be in in time for the deadline. Massive headache tbh

From a school admissions point of view, the applications from both parents will be put on hold in the hope they can come to an agreement. In the absence of this, the application from the parent in receipt of CB will be used.

I honestly don’t know. And that’s what I really hate, the unknown and all the variables which we just haven’t got a clue about. Even if it’s just about practicalities, the better school is more convenient for them both. It feels like it should be a straightforward decision but I think it will end up in court

Why would anyone go with where primary friends are going. There will be hundred of new kids!
It sounds like a no brainer to send him to the closer school. Maybe one weekend get him to do trek to the out of catchment school on foot/bus and show him what it will involve. I’d let him know driving won’t be possible so he needs to be happy making that journey and also getting up x hours early..
Id get up at 6.30am or whatever it would be with him and do a practise journey.

Just thinking, also, when weighting going to schools with primary friends or not… would there be a time when step/half siblings would be at the local school - ie would there be a time when he could be the big brother at the school and the kids would have a shared ‘history’ of sorts? My kids loved it when they ended up together, going on the bus together, waiting together in the rain when I got delayed. Shared friendship groups when they are friends with other siblings?

Realistically, if they can’t agree (which I don’t think they will), then they will both apply separately with their own addresses with their own preferred schools. I really don’t know what happens from there, but the application to our local school, which we’re well in catchment for, will be in in time for the deadline. Massive headache tbh

At that point, the LEA will come back to you both and ask the parents to agree and withdraw one of the applications (some LAs would go with the child benefit address if there is disagreement, but it sounds as if yours is not one of those). So they will ask parents to choose.

If parents refuse to do so, both applications will be ignored until there is agreement, or a court order one way or another, so the application would be treated as late.

If the school that "wins" is undersubscribed that may not be an issue as there may be a space anyway, but if the school is oversubscribed a court order won't make a full school offer him a place - he would just go on the waiting list. And would very possibly be offered the other school anyway if it is the closest one with a space at that point.

Can I ask, is there a portion of this about you (plural) using your financial power to make it really easy for the SC to live with you full time and thereby really stick it to her as a mother?

Can you understand that her reaction will be visceral? (course you do!).

If there are other ways in which her competence or authority as a mother is being undermined, then well that wouldn’t be very nice of you. (e.g. words or phrases to the child that indicate you don’t think much of his mother’s preference)

But happy to be told none of this is relevant

(Actually even if the "winning" application was late, the LA do have the ability to treat it as such, until a certain point - they might be able to tell you what that is. There is normally some leeway for moves/exceptional circumstances, but exactly what and when does differ between LAs)

The problem is that if he goes to the school his mates go to, presumably they live in the area. So he will want to socialise with them and as he gets older he will be doing things more independently.

It's going to be very difficult if he doesn't live in the area and is dependent on you all giving him lifts or relying on public transport.

If you don't agree to facilitate then what would happen realistically?

I honestly don’t know. And that’s what I really hate, the unknown and all the variables which we just haven’t got a clue about. Even if it’s just about practicalities, the better school is more convenient for them both. It feels like it should be a straightforward decision but I think it will end up in court

So this is why I suggested upthread that you make them consider the practicalities of how things will work in each circumstance. In doing so hold firm that you are not going to be muggins doing an insane amount of driving to facilitate an impractical decision. By making mum try to come up with a practical solution you may achieve her changing her mind about what her preference really is.

As other posters have said, the problem with going to court is that any decision will come after the school application and quite possibly allocation date.

And - whilst I agree with you that academics have more weight than friendships - her stance of giving most weight to DSS’s friendships and preference is not in itself unreasonable.

Are your children already at the secondary, or are they younger?

I’m honestly not sure what you’re getting at and think you might have misunderstood this whole question. The 50/50 set up works well for us all and nobody wants to change it. And we don’t have any financial power whatsoever! I’m not sure why you would think it’s about undermining her as a mother. It’s about the right thing for the child and the fact he has an opportunity to go to a great school, rather than a very poor one in an area he no longer lives with either parent. And we’re always very careful in conversations about we have in front of the kids. There’s no undermining of any other parent