Top state schools for DS and DD in Twickenham, Richmond, Ham areas

[LDNmeetsSurrey]

Hi

I'd really welcome your recommendations and reasons why for secondary state schools (ie not independent) in the Richmond, Ham, Twickenham areas.

We have a DD and DS so coed ideally. So far I've heard good things about Orleans Park and Grey Court.

What else would you list and why?

Not considering catchment at this point as we would be moving into the right spot based on school.

@LDNmeetsSurrey
I don't think you should worry about A levels. Children move to different schools to do A levels.
Also, the Sixth Form function ina different way and it is not an education with hours in benches. They got more consultations with the leading teacher rather than 8 hours of education every day.
I would focus on secondary school.

@LDNmeetsSurrey Kingston Academy's 2022 GCSE progress results were better than Grey Court's. You're looking at their 2023 results which are a little lower. The 2024 results aren't published yet, but it makes no sense to make decisions based on a single year's data.

TKA opened in 2015, the same year as Turing, so it only has a single year of A level results published. Like Turing, the sixth form probably wasn't full so you don't know how many of their A level students had lower entry grades. For any school, you also don't know how many students joined the school in sixth form rather than being "home grown".

Clearly, if you can't increase your budget, you will have to compromise somewhere, but it's not worth overthinking - your child's results in several years time will depend far more on their own abilities, work ethic and perhaps future school budgets than on minor differences in the 2023 results.

Thanks @trillionz - I'm definitely not looking at single year data, but appreciate the flag nonetheless

@TheGoldenGate interesting a few people are saying not to focus on a-levels and that children move for 6 form; is that a local borough perception based on previous years or a national trend?

My experience (friends, inc teachers) has been that where there is a six form children broadly tend to go continue through rather than switch up for the final 2 years.

Lots of kids go to Esher. Lots stay at their school. I really think that Kingston Academy is worth considering. It is comparable with Grey Court. Many parents in north Kingston were able to choose either it or Greycourt and some chose one, some chose the other. I have friends with children at both and they all seem happy enough. With Kingston Academy you could look at the houses you like in north Kingston. Traditionally girls from north Kingston often went to Coombe Girls but that might have changed now, especially with Kingston Academy on the doorstep.

Yes, you're right; generally, students tend to stick with the same friends from secondary school. However, if your child is in the top sets and performs well, many Sixth Forms will gladly accept him. Additionally, some girls' schools, like Waldegrave, accept boys for A-levels.

It's also worth remembering that your child's A-levels are still several years away, and many things could change by then. For instance, around ten years ago, GC School had poor results and behaviour, but with a new headteacher and improvements like the Inner Circle catchment area for Tiffin, the situation has changed significantly. Now, families often buy homes in the Inner Circle area, and if their child doesn’t get into Tiffin, they choose GC instead.

Years ago, Teddington's results were better than GC's. GC’s performance has since improved, while Teddington went through a rough patch but is now on the rise again.

My son’s school also had similar challenges. It was underperforming, but for the last few years with a new headmaster, it’s now ranked among the top 100 state schools in terms of results.

The conclusion is ...a lot can unexpectedly change over a course of years

About the housing. The better the school the more expensive houses around. I know a person who decided on renting to get her daughter to Waldegrave.

For The Kingston Academy you need to live within 0.9 km walking distance to be sure to get in Yes, last year catchment expanded to 1.2 km because they decided to expand the PAN but it is better to be on the safer
side as in your DC year the population did not drop radically.

@LDNmeetsSurrey "interesting a few people are saying not to focus on a-levels and that children move for 6 form; is that a local borough perception based on previous years or a national trend?"

It's a trend in areas like ours that have lots of options like Ofsted 'Outstanding' colleges (e.g. Esher, Strodes), super-selective academic sixth forms (e.g. the Tiffins, Harris Westminster) and popular girls schools that take boys in sixth form (e.g. Waldegrave) or vice versa (Tiffin School).

In some other areas of the country, sixth form college is traditionally seen as less academic than school sixth forms. Here there are very academic, mixed (e.g. Esher) and purely vocational options (e.g. Kingston College). There are also specialist schools like Kings Maths School, or drama schools.

Richmond College, in Twickenham, currently leans towards vocational but wants to be more mixed as it was 10+ years ago when it had a bigger intake and offered vocational courses, a full suite of A levels and the International Baccalaureate. It was hit hard when Richmond Borough schools opened sixth forms. It's spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down was the opening of the Richmond upon Thames school on its land in 2017. They anticipated it would be a feeder school to Richmond College, hence their new partnership sixth form. I understand the young people will have some lessons at the school and some at the college, depending on which subjects they pick. Also, younger children at the school will benefit from having some teachers who also teach A level.

My DC is probably going to move to a different sixth form or college for A levels simply because her existing (amazing) school doesn’t offer her preferred course.* You can’t really plan for that sort of thing at Year 6. Her social group might be anomalous but quite a few of her friends are also seriously considering moving on for various valid reasons.

Also, as much as it might be an unpalatable thought for some parents in the borough, A levels aren’t the most appropriate path for all children post-16.

*(not computer science btw 😀 😉)

Also, as much as it might be an unpalatable thought for some parents in the borough, A levels aren’t the most appropriate path for all children post-16.

True. 60 percent of kids are going through their A levels nationwide. Probably for Richmond borough this number is higher

So some really helpful perspective here. But...

So if schools change over time (which I know from my local area), A-levels aren't the right measure / data point to look at; what would you recommend? GCSE? Or progress (which some see as the school value add)? Something else?

I know the usual reply when you're already in the area is that you'll be very limited by catchment what you can go for, but I'm looking at buying to be in the right spot, which takes me back to - what's the right list of things to compare? Or simply - what's the best school in the borough and why?

@LDNmeetsSurrey , coming
from the Sutton area you must be familiar with all the quirks that make a good school that will suit your dc. With Tiffin on the doorstep the state secondaries are all good in their own ways. You also have the Catholic schools like Richard Reynolds or St Paul's Sunbury.
If you want a mixed state secondary non religious in Borough of Richmond upon Thames then you seem to have covered lots of the bases already.

You have to know your child and look at your child needs: sporty? academic? Very sensitive? All of the schools you listed have a different vibe. Go to Open days.
Is your child very academic? If not then widen the options.

I look at the location of the school because the school may be average but the cohort is wealthy enough to be successful ( tutoring). I looked at all schools you listed plus the Catholic schools. All are very good schools. I sent him to st Paul's because of the school ethos: helping others, I want to raise an empathetic man and not only an achiever. I also liked how kind and respectful towards kids were the teachers. I liked the huge campus and the park with benches on the site. The school is very academic and they have a lot of homework. But my son loves every day there. If only got adjusted to waking up early...:)

@LDNmeetsSurrey , all the schools in Richmond Borough are good, and all in their own way. For all of them you will find people who will praise them, and people who have had bad experiences due to their particular circumstances. There is no consensus on which one is the 'best'. That is why you're not getting a clear answer to your question.

Ultimately, you want to know your children will be happy at school and surrounded by children from families a bit like yours to maximise their chances if making good friends. If you lived in the borough already, your children would already have friends here, and you would be reassured by the fact that they were all moving on together.

You've told us nothing about your DD and DS, not even their ages, and you haven't asked about primary schools. Again, they are all good. Some are big, some are small, some have more facilities. Some will currently be struggling more than others to cope with lower birth-rate numbers impacting their budgets (because schools are funded per child).

If you're planning to buy, and settle, rather than rent, then surely there's more to think about than just school data and feeling safe - what about public transport, or green spaces, or local shops, or clubs for your children's interests? Maybe those things should be driving your choice a bit more. Settle in an area of the borough that you can comfortably afford, and which feels right, near a primary school that suits you. Make a life here. You will find other families like yours have done the same, and are very happy.

@trillionz

"what about public transport, or green spaces, or local shops, or clubs for your children's interests? Maybe those things should be driving your choice a bit more. Settle in an area of the borough that you can comfortably afford, and which feels right, near a primary school that suits you. Make a life here. You will find other families like yours have done the same, and are very happy."

That's the best advice anyone has given on one of these posts. That's all detail - travel, green spaces, shops, clubs, and so forth - I'm processing in the background. Your point around settling where you can afford comfortably financially is probably the key one; yes we all make sacrifices but equally don't want to be resenting our decisions forever.

I'm grateful for all the perspectives here.

I think all my remaining questions are probably internal ones to debate rather than ones people on here can help with.

Good luck and I wish you make a right decision that will serve well your child and your family!

We spent a week in an Airbnb near GC so not a local but was such a nice areas near the river and lots of green space. I would visit the area around meadland drive as tho they look pretty grim on Rightmove it looked like somewhere I would like to live in real life!

Basically you will be fine anywhere in Richmond or north Kingston. You will have access to Richmond Park, the river, Kingston and Richmond town centres, a decent hospital, plenty of clubs and activities, good schools... the details could drive you mad but you are not moving to a dodgy area wherever you go. I have lived here for 33 years and have had very positive experiences

Thanks @Arran2024 - agree, just very defined catchments for some/all of the schools in this string so would have to plan wisely I think to have a preference pan out successfully

I wonder if you've made decision and what is your choice. I'm still so uncertain, I have a girl, who is academically strong,loves arts, does lots of sport and is super polite. I checked Waldegrave and it seemed cramped and unappealing. For us, community is important, friendly environment, good pastoral care... Anyways, if you could share anything 🙏

My son attends StPauls Catholic school