Top state schools for DS and DD in Twickenham, Richmond, Ham areas

[LDNmeetsSurrey]

Hi

I'd really welcome your recommendations and reasons why for secondary state schools (ie not independent) in the Richmond, Ham, Twickenham areas.

We have a DD and DS so coed ideally. So far I've heard good things about Orleans Park and Grey Court.

What else would you list and why?

Not considering catchment at this point as we would be moving into the right spot based on school.

Thanks @trillionz - again, helpful history for nuance around results now.

Yes, appreciate the lag on 24 results. Someone who attended the Grey Court open day shared their 24 results slide they used, which was quite impressive

@LDNmeetsSurrey , yes, schools do publish their own results - I think Turing's 2024 results might be in a newsletter on their website. But they do all present them in different ways, so it's difficult to compare them objectively.

The Government- published results are all standardised, and will include any late re-gradings. You'd be surprised how many results need to be sent back for a second look and end up going up by one or more grades, especially at GCSE - the quality of some of the marking is inconsistent - they don't pay markers enough to tempt experienced teachers to do it.

@trillionz
they were Twickenham School and Hampton High (their children now get priority for Esher College or else transfer to other schools).
You phrased it as if Hampton High or Twickenham pupils had uniquely special guarantee. In fact all Richmond, Kingston and Merton pupils are considered as a guaranteed applicants

Another quirk of the 2023 results is that the Government didn't publish its usual 'Value Added' (VA) measure of progress. That's because its baseline would have been the 2021 Key Stage 4 results which were screwed up due to Covid. The DfE have said they won't be publishing the VA measure until at least 2025. Until then, you'll only be able to compare attainment, not progress. The most academically selective schools (or schools with intakes that benefit from astute parenting and/or affluence selection) will be top of the published comparison measures, and the schools with the most inclusive intakes won't be able to point to their progress measures as evidence of doing well.

All schools in those boroughs that don't have sixth forms are listed by name in Esher's formal admissions policy. Children at those schools are "guaranteed" a place, so are not competing with each other.

Esher College is very large, so also has room for very Open applicants that come from schools that do have sixth forms.

About that Greycourt results. i would not rely on one year but afew. In Richmond borough Orlean Park, Grey Court and Turing have top results. Few percent one way or another vary from year to year and as it was mentioned e.g. in 2023 Turing had best results.

I would also not look at the Six form as many kids are changing where they attend.
Most importantly what suits your kid. If she/he is very sporty, I would consider Grey Court. If he/she likes science, Computer Science then def Turing as they have a lot of programs. For languages I would consider Orleans: you can study French Spanish and German at the same time and there are some clubs with other even oriental languages. For humanities, I sould probably thing Orlean or Grey Park.

Turing is a school which is very pragmatic, down to Earth, emphasis on science and computing ( Alan Turing!). The school is focused on high discipline and the all round education and practical life skills are valued there. From all three schools this one os making huge effort as they receive kids from a very mixed background and they lift them up up up.
Orlean's has a University vibe, it is more anonymous, children are expected to be independent but it is very relaxed and easygoing school. Worth noting that the school has the highest number of EHCP pupils in the borough.
Grey Court is a school which has the history of years up and in the past years very much down. The school location is safe, and the kids there enjoy a variety of sports. The school has a lot of girls who didn't get to Tiffin Girls and their parents move there to be in the Inner Circle catchment. The school improved when Tiffin girls established that Inner Circle. And also it is thanks to a very good head.

@TheGoldenGate Turing is also very good for maths and humanities, as well as science. They only do one language, which is Spanish, but they do it well.

That said, I think humanities are a strength of most schools, because there are relatively fewer issues with teacher recruitment.

Computer Science is hit and miss in all schools because computing teachers are very difficult to recruit an retain. Many schools don't offer it at GCSE or A Level for that reason. Luckily you don't need it to do computer science at university - being strong at maths is key.

This is the bit of Esher's admissions policy that lists the schools with guaranteed places:

Maths science, computing- of course

Humanities- oook but not their primary focus.

Luckily you don't need it to do computer science at university - being strong at maths is key.

For many computer subjects at Univ the requirement is not only Maths and Advanced math score at A levels but also Computer Science

They only do one language, which is Spanish, but they do it well.

Hardly a language focused school. They have 3 h per week as in many schools. I would not call it a school that specialises at languages. Look at the Orlean Park offer.

I have also copy pasted from Esher website- above. Postcode and all Richmond school.

Your post up thread said "all Richmond, Kingston and Merton pupils are considered as a guaranteed applicants" which isn't true. I posted the screenshot from the policy to show the list of schools included.

Are you saying that Esher college provided false information on their web page? Once again the same screenshot from their page. Of course that they are not consider the priority those schools that have Six forms, why would they ?!

@TheGoldenGate

Thank you. You mention the area of Grey Court is safe, are there no so great parts also? We walked around and found some parts very green (eg Ham common) and others by the school exit looking a bit rough, but that might just be the architecture. Welcome any views on nice areas of Ham. We saw one property on Latchmere lane, but it felt very sad.

Turing is a great school but the placement of the new building is not the most fortunate. Some parents from the primary my son attended were reluctant to send to Turing because of quote" not the safest area and kids hang out on the busy roads of Hounslow". And they send their kid to Teddington. Recently there was a wide search for a Turing girl pupil. I don't know if they found her.
If you look at the crime rate locations maps online, you will find that where GC is placed is related safe location. Safer than many other schools in London. Nested between two great parks Ham is not a prime crime location:)

"For many computer subjects at Univ the requirement is not only Maths and Advanced math score at A levels but also Computer Science"

At the risk of going off at a tangent ... do you have a list? All the courses I've looked at ask for maths and further maths, with a preference for a science for the third subject, but not specifically computer science.

But back to secondary schools ... none of the local schools have formal specialist school status these days because the DfE no longer funds it - they want all schools to have a "broad and balanced" curriculum.

Orleans used to have a formal language specialism so has retained that reputation and curriculum structure. They do 3 languages, but Grey Court does 4. Turing does 1.

Turing has a strong focus on STEM subjects, but, from my experience of having 2 children at the school, does humanities very well too.

This is a nasty post @TheGoldenGate .

Yes, they found her. Children go temporarily missing at that age all the time - from all the local schools - and usually they turn up very quickly thank goodness.

Kids from all backgrounds go walkabout after school. Teddington kids hang out in Kingston or Ham Riverside. Orleans kids hang out at Marble Hill. But in all cases many also get the bus straight home.

Whitton is a lot more middle-class than Teddington folk imagine ... they just worry about it being "near Hounslow". 🙄

@LDNmeetsSurrey this police website lets you put in a postcode to see recent crimes in the area: https://www.police.uk/pu/your-area/?search=1

Richmond Borough is one of the safest in London.

Thanks @trillionz - I know, but to be honest, that doesn't really tell the whole picture. My street where I am now is pretty quiet, but standard antisocial behaviour in town centre (near pubs), car crime and occasional burglary spikes.

That doesn't tell you what it feels like to walk around, whether the parks/playgrounds feel nice, if the pubs are a bit edgy or family friendly etc.

Not sure anyone on the strong actually lives near Grey Court which is where I'm gravitating towards, but that's what I'm trying to get a feel of.

@LDNmeetsSurrey yeah, I know what you mean, you might be better off browsing the local threads on Facebook to find people who live near Grey Court.

At the risk of going off at a tangent ... do you have a list?

Of course not. Why would I spend time creating lists about it? I looked at many courses at Universities re computer studies and what they are taking into consideration at A- levels. As always 3 subjects and not two( maths) Maths and computer science. I have a little computer nerd at home and he is only 11 years old but because I looked at the A level requirements I decided what tutoring he will have. I pay for Computer Science 1x 3x Maths, and ....2 x French as languages matter in general.

none of the local schools have formal specialist school status these days because the DfE no longer funds it
Of course. But most of schools have their strong points.

They do 3 languages, but Grey Court does 4. Turing does 1.

No, there are more at Orlean Park. I know a person who appealed the school placement( and not succeded of course) with OP basing on their Chinese Mandarine language course that she took before. They have quite a few in addition to curriculum.

Turing has a strong focus on STEM subjects,

That is what I meant. It doesn't mean that the humanities are behind or in neglect but it is what it is.

We have decided on St Paul's and my son loves it. Over a hundred positive points. Wonderful school

I stated the reasons how some parents justified the choices in Y6. What is nasty about me repeating their choices.
What is nasty about expressing concern about missing girl? Thank god they found her. Fact: she was missing. Nothing nasty in saying it.
What is nasty about saying that some location are safer and the other are less? There are websites to check it. Not a secret.
I would strongly advise you to refrain from using the word "nasty" because it immediatly positiones you as a biased person who offends people rather than using pragmatic arguments in discussions.

You like to sweep things under the carpet and use only rose tinted words about a particular school. No sorry. I say it all with pros and cons if am asked. There is no school with only great features and that applies even to school which my son attends.

Here:

@TheGoldenGate Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial all have their admissions criteria online and the third subject requirement is a science, e.g physics or chemistry or computer science. They don't say that they prefer computer science, not least because many schools don't teach it, and also because the sort of applicants they want are the ones that teach themselves coding etc outside of school.

E.g. Tiffin School in Kingston send students to top universities to do computer science every year, but not many of their boys even do GCSE Computer Science (because they can only choose it as an option combined with double-science, not triple-science), and there is no A level computer science course at all. They do have extracurricular computing clubs though.

Ask AI please e.g Gemini or Chat Gpt question: statistically, what the UK universities ( not necessarly only top ones) require as the subjects at A level at the univ entrance when applying for computer subjects.
The answer is: Maths, Advanced Maths, Computer Science, Physics. All depends on the specific subject at Univ.

If a Uni has many candidates with A stars they look at the subjects they taken at A level and GCSE. Surely the person with Computer Science GCSE and A level will have more chance than the person with e.g French. Or English at A levels.
It shows true interest and dedication

The subjects at Univ are various: from Robotics with AI through Computer programming, Cybersecurity, Data Servers and so on. My son's dad builds electronic devices: spectroscopes. He builds the spectroscope and programs the functions. What subjects are needed to do it: programming and computer science, physics of course

@trillionz

but not many of their boys even do GCSE Computer Science (because they can only choose it as an option combined with double-science, not triple-science)

Triple science consists of physics, chemistry and biology.

Computer science is a separate subject, with a separate curiculum at the gov website, and despite of the word science and has nothing to do with the Science as a school subject.

I would be surprised it was in a different way at Tiffin Boys.

12 boys out of 190 . Not too many are going into Computer subjects.