Top state schools for DS and DD in Twickenham, Richmond, Ham areas

[LDNmeetsSurrey]

Hi

I'd really welcome your recommendations and reasons why for secondary state schools (ie not independent) in the Richmond, Ham, Twickenham areas.

We have a DD and DS so coed ideally. So far I've heard good things about Orleans Park and Grey Court.

What else would you list and why?

Not considering catchment at this point as we would be moving into the right spot based on school.

Three schools (Waldegrave, Grey Court & Christs) don't do open evenings at all, just open mornings. Orleans only do a headteachers' talk at their evening event, but also does open mornings. Those four schools stopped full open evenings a few years ago - from memory I think someone set off a fire alarm at a Waldegrave Open Evening so they all decided to scale back. Open evenings take up a lot of staff time and energy, and it can be difficult for the most popular schools to control visitor numbers.

Teddington always had a big event and is coming back from a few difficult years. Turing is the new kid on the block and wants to welcome people into their new building.

@trillionz iirc last year Turing offered only a zoom meeting with the Head.

They had an open evening too - I went to it. They did both.

Orleans only do a headteachers' talk at their evening event but also does open morning

Which is not ideal, isn't it? Many local schools manage several headteachers talk during the open morning or evening. Some do both.
I have attended a year ago and have been there twice on another occassion.

Turing is the new kid on the block and wants to welcome people into their new building.

New kid with the 10 years history of existence? Hmm....
And they happen to lead the borough in terms of GCSE marks.

Open evenings take up a lot of staff time and energy, and it can be difficult for the most popular schools to control visitor numbers.

Of course, and as one of the posters above said why would they bother to impress local families. They know they will get a cohort with prospective good grades anyway.

And as a result of that grand Open Evening at Teddington a lot of children with top GCSE marks from our primary went to Teddington. They felt it is "a cool " school. Promoting the school matters.

You are not right. I have been present at a magnificent Open Evening at Turing. Equally great was at Teddington and SRRCS but that last one was an organised tour more than walk around. The Open morning at Orleans was a chaos.
We decided on school located out of borough and in Surrey but we live in Richmond.

You said on another thread that you live in Hampton Hill, so you aren't in the Orleans Park catchment. Why did you visit?

It does help to explain why visitor numbers become unmanageable for popular schools.

And why locals in catchment often can't get onto the open days. I’ve attended fewer OP open days (well technically the same number I suppose if you include 6th form) and I actually like the school and sent my children there.

My friend has one year younger child with EHCP. That boy is a friend of my son. And we went together. EHCP kids are not restricted by the catchment
Then I was twice on the site not on the tour but with the different purpose.

It is manageable as one has to book attendance at the Open day. There is a number of slots for each day. You have to specify there which year group is your son and which school . As a part of management they could bar people who don't live in the catchment. But they don't. They are not the school with most Open day evenings

They don't get only if they are not bothered to book it well in advance.
I am glad you like the school and your kid likes it. But all schools have pros and cons as everything in life.

Teacher terms and conditions include a fixed amount of "directed time", so time they spend at open evenings means less time spent on something else. If a school feels it doesn't need to do a full open evening for marketing reasons, then it is a wise decision not to.

so time they spend at open evenings means less time spent on something else.
That would apply to all schools that organise Open evenings and not only a specific one.
I have not noticed much of teacher's involvement in any school during the morning visits. Maybe only in a sense that some classes are open and the visitors can look insight while the lesson is in progress.
Many schools organise evening visits with volunteer children support.

If a school feels it doesn't need to do a full open evening for marketing reasons, then it is a wise decision not to.

Yes and no. It may give the impression that is described by the poster above that they don't care. In my opinion it is essential to keep good school image, even if it was only one instance Open Evening as it is at Turing school. The schools have golden eras and decline as we can observe over decades. E.g. Grey Court was two - three decades ago not too good school when it comes to grading. Now it is one of the top state schools in the country. Waldegrave had the time when it was in the lead of UK state schools when it comes to grades at GCSE. Still a great school but not the top. That is why it is important to take care of image, being open to local communities

If you are looking at Greycourt why not also look at Kingston Academy. It is just over the LA border in Kingston.

Good idea and thanks for getting the thread back on track, I fear I inadvertently derailed it with my defence of OPS…

KA has good results and the advantage is that is relatively small school as compared to schools around.

Thanks for the enthusiasm and the replies here. We've been all in since I posted, visiting the area, seeing properties in what I think are the catchment areas for Grey Court and Orleans Park.

I hadn't appreciated quite how far north of Kingston station you need to be to be in with a shot at Grey Court, north of Durlston Road I'd say. I couldn't quite figure out what I thought of Ham and the style of properties and whether it was a good area or not.

Catchment of Orleans has some lovely streets, but nothing really shy of £1.2million and even then needing work until you get closer to £1,5.

Curious to hear more about Turing House as not ranked that highly rated at a-levels (unlike GCSE) and what that area feels like? Looks closer to Whitton / Hounslow that we'd been thinking, and I know nothing about that area.

@LDNmeetsSurrey Don't worry about A level results at this stage - a lot of children move schools for Year 12 or go to Esher College, so it is GCSE performance you need to look at.

Turing was a brand new school in 2015 and started then in an office block with a single Year 7 cohort of just 100 children, adding a new year group each year and gradually growing. That means their Year 12 didn't open until Sept 2020 (mid-Covid). They got their first A level results in 2022 (not published due to Covid). The results online now are only their second cohort results from 2023.

Their 2023 A level cohort was tiny (51) because some of the 100 home-grown kids in that year group went to college. Mine was one of them - that's not because we didn't have faith in the sixth form, but just because my daughter wanted to go to Esher for a different experience, and because she wanted to do a subject that wasn't offered at Turing that year.

My second child has just started in Year 12 at Turing and the cohort size is now much bigger - about 100, which isn't 'full' but double what it was in 2023. She seems very happy and is doing well. Because it's not full I get the impression they've taken some kids who have lower grades, so that might impact the overall results when the time comes, but I've got absolute faith in her teachers. One of her friends who went to Esher is thinking of coming back, as college doesn't suit everyone.

I think Year 11 has 150 students and year 10 and below have 165 students, so it won't be long before the sixth form is full every year. I'm not sure how many spaces it has - I think their policy says 150 but it might have to reduce now that they've started taking 165 in the lower school.

Forgot to mention - Turing has a nodal admissions point in Fulwell, aka North Teddington, so you need to live near there rather than very near the school. They take a lot of kids from St Marys & St Peters, Stanley, Archdeacon Cambridge, and Trafalgar primary school. There's loads of admissions info on their website, including catchment maps from the last few years.

They do take some children from near the school - about 20%, but most in the Whitton area go to Twickenham School or Richmond upon Thames School.

Turing House as not ranked that highly rated at a-levels (unlike GCSE) and what that area feels like?

It didn't have A levels results at all

Isn't Turing a controversial school? Don't they take children from the wealthy areas of Teddington and ignore the local kids?

I think some people found their admissions policy controversial because it's different to other schools. It's different because they couldn't find a site in the area where the school was needed, and some people were unhappy that it was being built in their area instead.

IIRC, the site debate was happening around about local election time, so some people upped the temperature.

I did hear that somebody referred the admissions policy to the schools adjudicator, saying it was unfair, but the adjudicator disagreed - there's a report online somewhere. That's all water under the bridge now though - it's a lovely school.

They don't get many kids from across Teddington - its mostly north Teddington, and Hampton Hill and West Twickenham. There's a bar chart on their website: https://turinghouseschool.org.uk/documents/admissions/THSwarddata.jpg

It does

Really helpful context @trillionz thank you

@LDNmeetsSurrey some more context to these 2023 stats... 10+ years ago none of the Richmond borough schools had sixth forms - they were all 11-16 schools, and the children all went to college for A levels. But the schools all got together to persuade the Council and the DfE that they would be able to recruit and retain better staff if they were 11-18 instead. They opened their sixth forms in about 2014. Inevitably, many kids still wanted to go to college, or else move schools for sixth form, so some filled up faster than others. Two sixth forms didn't thrive, so eventually had to close - they were Twickenham School and Hampton High (their children now get priority for Esher College or else transfer to other schools).

As I said up-thread, Turing opened its Year 7 in 2015, so its sixth form didn't open until 2020 - six years behind the others, but growing fast, so it should be oversubscribed by the time your children are that age. Sixth forms all have minimum GCSE grades for starting A Levels but often take children with lower grades if they aren't oversubscribed.

Richmond upon Thames School is another new school that opened its year 7 around the same time as Turing. It isn't included in the 2023 results because it didn't have a sixth form then, but they are now opening one in partnership with Richmond College.

p.s. The 2024 A level stats will be published on the Government website around February - there's always a bit of a lag.

Worth adding that the Tiffin grammar schools in Kingston have a big intake in year 12, so some go there too, or to other very academically selective sixth form options like Kings Maths School in Lambeth or Harris Westminster.