Very scary maths teacher

[CathyCampbell]

My DD has just started at secondary school. It felt like it was going well for the first few days. However, she is getting upset in the mornings and came home upset tonight about her maths teacher. It sounds like the teacher she has for maths is extremely strict. Strict to the point of being terrifying! My DD doesnt like maths much but managed it ok in primary school and did ok in the SATs. But she's absoultely distraught at the idea of having to take maths with this woman. She said that she 'had never met anyone like her before' and felt so frightened in the class that she couldnt move. I feel so frustrated by this, everything else was going fine and she was excited about starting secondary. It feels morally wrong to be making year 7 children this terrified in their first week! My question is, do you think the school would consider moving her to another class? I feel like they will just say no, but it feels unjust and counterproductive to be so terrified of one of the teachers that you dont want to go to school. I have never seen my kind and happy-go-lucky child so upset before.

Bizarre, my schooling experience wasn’t like this at all and I just asked my best friend who is an high school teacher and she said the same.

Maybe that’s your experience but it’s clearly not universal.

Some teachers are unnecessarily unpleasant to pupils (I say that as a teacher, and with a teacher DH). My DD had some extremely strict teachers in Y7 who really scared her. I didn't intervene as I thought she just needed to get used to it. Over time she developed severe anxiety about school and now struggles to go to attend. In our case, there are other factors at play too but it does mean that I have evolved into the annoying parent who emails all the time.

PP is right- children don't learn if they are scared.

Yes, I have taught large groups of teenagers and no, not in a formal school setting, I’ve said that three times now.

You’re trying to insinuate that anyone who has never been a teacher isn’t allowed to have an opinion on teaching, but I’m never going to agree with you so don’t bother.

At least she's not throwing the board chalk, or worse the wooden board rubber at the students!

We used to love it when a teacher did that! We always knew exactly what the pupil had done to deserve it (being a smartarse usually). The chalk or board rubber always either landed on the desk or hit the wall behind the pupil. No-one was hurt or traumatised, and anyone who wasn't paying attention was woken up.

Also at my school, the scary maths teachers were the good ones. The ones who weren't scary were fairly useless.

You can have an opinion but you have zero experience to base it on. Some of us have been doing this job a long time - nearly 30 years in my case - we know what works. I’m not going to listen to someone who’s never taught a single lesson in a school setting

I'm sorry that has happened to your daughter, it must be very hard for you all.
You are right, children dont learn if they are scared, but they also don't learn if the teacher is interrupted 10 times a minute or if children throw stationary/paper etc. Children can also feel scared by other children's bad behaviour in a classroom. It's a really tricky line to tread, to instill expectations and respect without crossing a line into authoritarianism.
Above advice to wait it out a bit then organise a meeting sounds like a good plan.

Moving after a couple of lessons is quite drastic and chances are the school will say no. Email her form tutor and explain that she has had a good start but is now terrified of the maths teacher and is getting upset about school and could she or he support your DD and then take it from there Older students can be really good at supporting especially if the teacher is a good one but strict to start. If you know any, then you could ask. Schools can’t help if they don’t know and 99% of teachers wouldn’t want a child getting upset about coming in because they were terrified so ask her form tutor for some support.

I am not currently a teacher but I worked in education for twenty years.

In most secondaries there is a behaviour policy. It might be called something else - sometimes it's discipline or part of the inclusion policy or whatever but all secondaries have one.

This states what sanctions teachers are supposed to give for specific behavioural problems.

For example, the behaviour policy at the last school I worked at said that if a student turned up not in uniform they had to be sent to pastoral support. Pastoral support then dealt with it, I actually don't know if they phoned home or what but the pint was teachers didn't deal with it.

Another example, the behaviour policy said that teachers were not to give out detentions without warning students first. So we all had to go to training on the behaviour policy and the example was;
Freddie, you are talking while I am talking. I am warning you now that if you do not stop you will have a detention.
(If Freddie stops - no detention)
If Freddie doesn't stop then you give a detention.

Individual teachers have some discretion over applying the behaviour policy, but if you don't apply it properly you will wind up in trouble. So for example say you set a detention without giving a warning. If the parent phones in and complains, the school policy was to cancel the detention if no warning was given.

Secondary schools employ a lot of teachers. In my last school there were over 100. In order to get some level of consistency they are told to stick to the behaviour policy and in general most of them do.

Many year 7's find this very difficult. Someone they have only just met is telling them off. They respond emotionally by feeling this person is scary.

In practice it's more like applying a customer service policy. If you bought the item over a year ago you are not getting a refund, if you turn up to school in wrong uniform you will be sent to pastoral support. Policy is policy no matter who you hassle.

It's not personal (most of the time)

Then don’t interact with me. I didn’t interact with you, I was talking to someone else. If you’re not interested in anyone else’s opinion then don’t bother talking to them, I couldn’t care less, I stand by my points and I’m not going to agree with you either.

Teachers also used to say only physical punishment would work because they knew best - thankfully we know differently now.

“I’ve finished this page what shall I do?”

“Shall I write the long date or short date?”

holds book into the air and shouts ”Do you think I should start this lesson on this page or go onto the next one?”

”How many lines should I leave after the title?”

x30 every.single.lesson. Don’t even get me started on sticking something in their book!

Assuming your English teacher was a bit shit? I don’t necessarily agree with what you are saying but I think you need to give time to the teacher. It’s a new scenario for both of them.

I haven't claimed that my experience is universal.

But then I haven't claimed that the strict teachers that I had were "wankers".

In what respect did you have these groups of 30 teenagers?
I suspect that they all wanted to be there.

Yes don’t agree with the person who’s actually done the job for 3 decades because you clearly know so much better - with your zero experience

Of course they didn’t - when have you ever known a situation where large groups of teenagers all want to be there and behave at all times!

And yes, my strictest teachers were wankers. A lot of the teachers were wankers who had zero care for bullying or personal issues. My school was horrific, I wouldn’t send my worst enemy there. There were one or two teachers that were okay and one was the lady I met ones who was well respected. You don’t have to believe me, that’s fine, but I know what happened in that school.

You havent actually said anything, you’ve just asked me about my experience then said you have no interest in anything I have to say.

So I don’t really know what your point is. But as we have both said we won’t agree with each other about experience, let’s just agree to end this utterly pointless exchange.

So let’s just leave it.

And yet you keep on responding ???

Sitting in silence sounds bliss, my son would thrive in such a class. Listening to the teacher without interruption or disruption would be his ideal type of lesson.
Sorry your daughter found it tough, but I would have thought in time she'd benefit from being with a teacher who won't stand for disruption. So long as she can ask questions for clarification then I think she'll probably do really well. Just tell her the teacher has to be strict to maximise learning potential, and providing she (your dd) does as she's told, they'll likely get on swimmingly.

Shout?
I thought the strict ones do not shout, they just have a deathly stare.

I used to have a teacher who would shout until his entire head went red.

Now I realise he actually did it because he had lost control.

Email tutor/head of year. They can have a quiet word with the teacher in question.

The teacher shouldn't be terrifying. If the behaviour policy is effective, teachers can be firm but fair. We have an EBSNA epidemic and many children are exceptionally scared of school, before you factor in frightening teachers.

Why do you think that I don't believe you?
I definitely believe that you consider these teachers to be wankers.
I have no other frame of reference for them.

I also believe that your opinion is coloured by your age and perception of that time of your life.

I also know that the teachers that you don't like would be under a huge amount of stress to provide results as you say it was/is a high achieving school.

I also know that my opinion of quite a few of my teachers differs from my friends due to different classes and my opinion of my teachers will differ from some of those that where in the same class.

My maths teacher ignored everyone in the class apart from those on his table of favourites and woe betide anyone that stepped out of line, made a noise or even asked a question. But no doubt those that were his favourites would think that he was exceptional and he was revered by parents and the head.

If she’s a qualified maths teacher in a secondary school then the only thing your DD’s gotta be is grateful. She might be scary but if she knows what she’s doing you gotta roll with it cos recruitment is so bad there ain’t no one waiting in the wings to replace her if she leaves and DD will just end up with supply all year. It’s a shitty, thankless job in schools right now and no one wants to do it.

Yes, I appreciate that this is all likely true. And I definitely recognise the teacher in your last paragraph. The school ignored bullying, struggling children, kids with mental health. If you had a tough time emotionally you were ‘disciplined’ until they fell into line - I was one of those children and it messed me up, it still does. So yes, maybe this is why I find strictness unnecessary, especially having seen teachers who managed to deal with children without it.

So yes, maybe I am skewed in my point of view, but knowing how strictness can affect kids, I can’t agree that it’s the right course of action in every situation or that teachers who aren’t strict are not in control.

I think I’m going to have to leave this thread as it’s actually a lot.

😂😂😂

'I've finished the page what shall I do?' drives me insane every.single September.

What have they been doing in Year 6 that they don't know what to do when they get to the end of the page in their exercise book?! It beggars belief.

My usual response is 'oh dear, you'll have to write on the table then, won't you?' Cue lots of shocked little faces...

Only those of us who have to break in Year 7s every year truly get it! Sending solidarity!

Don't speak to the school (certainly not yet). Tell her to give it a chance, stick with it, do the work to the best of her ability, think things through herself and if she has a question ask with confidence. It's fine to ask questions. Some of the absolute best teachers I had were absolute tartars but it worked well for them as less time was spend on discipline and we learnt a lot of their subjects. Some of the best They were actually fantastic people and really funny too when routine got settled. Let her do their job and see how it goes. Reassure her it isn't personal and teachers have different methods for managing the class.