Very scary maths teacher

[CathyCampbell]

My DD has just started at secondary school. It felt like it was going well for the first few days. However, she is getting upset in the mornings and came home upset tonight about her maths teacher. It sounds like the teacher she has for maths is extremely strict. Strict to the point of being terrifying! My DD doesnt like maths much but managed it ok in primary school and did ok in the SATs. But she's absoultely distraught at the idea of having to take maths with this woman. She said that she 'had never met anyone like her before' and felt so frightened in the class that she couldnt move. I feel so frustrated by this, everything else was going fine and she was excited about starting secondary. It feels morally wrong to be making year 7 children this terrified in their first week! My question is, do you think the school would consider moving her to another class? I feel like they will just say no, but it feels unjust and counterproductive to be so terrified of one of the teachers that you dont want to go to school. I have never seen my kind and happy-go-lucky child so upset before.

You need to tell your dd to buckle up and impress her by doing the work.

The response from some of the teachers on here is exactly why I'm considering it for my children. I can't stand the idea of them being "taught" in this kind of environment with this authoritarian style.

When I was a child teaching seemed to be a largely joyful profession and I never encountered this behaviour. It seems wrong to me that it's clearly not a teacher at the end of their rope (first week of term), so this is down to the training, culture and values of this particular teacher and possibly the school.

In my workplace's behaviour charter, eye rolling was listed as an example of unacceptable/uncivil work behaviour. I don't think that children should be subjected to it either.

https://www.allaboutvision.com/resources/eye-rolling/

Someone holding a child in contempt is not worthy of it.

She'll get used to it

All she has to do is sit there learn and keep her mouth shut

My DD was a chatterbox and would come home upset after getting told off

I had no sympathy for her because I know she's causing a massive disruption for the class especially as so many DC find maths difficult

A good teacher keeps her pupils in check from the start

It's easier in private schools because they arrive well conditioned but in state schools classes can be an absolute disaster unless there is a strong teacher at the the helm

They soften once the pupils know their place

Seriously? Do you know how disruptive some children can be? It's a great methods to state the expectation at the start.
Teachers are there for teaching children, not to be friends, or be an entertainment. The ones who are wiing to earn can get the joy of learning even from strict teachers, imo.

When I was a child at secondary school, we had some older teachers near retirement who had been teaching since the 50s. They were very much more strict and intimidating than the description of this teacher. At least she's not throwing the board chalk, or worse the wooden board rubber at the students!

Clearly I don't think anyone should be doing that, and I think that pulling sneering faces and eye rolling is not the way to interact with students.

When I was teaching, with new year 7s in September there was no need to be extra strict because they were mostly a bit trepidatious of "big school" and the kinds of tales children tell each other. It was the year 8s you had to be on the button with.

The thing is, mutual respect takes time to be established, and in secondary school that involves a good few weeks because each teacher sees their classes for less time. In the meantime, if clear lines in the sand are not drawn in a more authoritan style at the start, the learning environment is never calm enough to build into respect, because children's behaviour descends into chaos really, really easily.
So for an adult workplace of course your policy makes sense, because nobody chooses to throw furniture/stationary/ hurt others/destroy stuff "just for fun". Whereas teenagers regularly do, if they think they can get away with it.
Maybe, just maybe, believe the teachers who are posting as we have, unlike you, actually lived these scenarios. Drawing parallels to any other workplace miss the point, because workplaces are full of people who have been taught how to behave properly so know how to follow those rules. How? By going to secondary school...

It's maths. It's focused. Disciplined. Lots to learn and not enough time. Just tell her to keep her head down and listen and she will be fine

Behaviour is a huge problem in secondary schools, those teachers who have mastered discipline are like gold dust, they are doing it for the children not themselves.
Take a look at Michaela school, state school in a deprived area with almost a third on free school meals. It is known as the strictest school, for example children are not allowed to talk in the corridors. Their recent GCSE results, 50% grade 9. They outstripped the vast majority of private schools. They literally have changed lives of young people with troubled backgrounds.

In general the strict teachers usually are the best ones.

Help your dd understand that if she does what she is told and works she will be fine. She is old enough to handle herself now and she will grow out of this.

For gods sake don’t wade in and complain about this.

In all seriousness, there is a step up in expectations at secondary.

Students are expected to have their uniform, anything they need for the lesson, and manage their own belongings.

For a lot of students this is something they get worried about, but for the vast vast majority after the first week they are fine.

For those who are not fine usually pastoral support or the Sen department will step in - I have taught many students with autism for example where I kept a maths pencil case and calculator for them that school provided.

It's a step on the road to adulthood, as is learning to manage PE kits, lockers, bus passes etc. for most kids it's a big step up in independence.

The teachers have a much less personal relationship than at primary. At primary in general one person teaches 30 kids for the whole year with maybe some specialists for art or French.

At secondary the teacher might have 7 classes of 30 kids each. Speaking personally, even with a really good memory it's hard to get all the names quickly.

Again, this is a stepping stone so that the students get better at managing relationships with larger numbers of people because as they progress to college and then to university there will be more and more independence but also bigger classes. University lectures can have up to 400 people and the student needs to have learnt by that point to turn up with what they need and how to learn from someone they don't have a social relationship with.

The same teachers who the year 7's think are scary are the ones the year 11's are doing handmade cards for at the end of GCSEs because they have got the grades they need to.

CathyCampbell

What exactly are you going to complain about?
And what outcome do you want?

Because none of the examples that you give will get any sort of response other than a shrug (and yes) eye rolling.

I am not a teacher by the way, all three of my children had the same very strict Maths teacher at school, got lucky. All of them had their best grade in Maths, and they know why.

Just FYI

My husband used to be a maths teacher (at uni),

No where near comparable, he needs to wind his neck in, all the hard work behaviour wise is done by the time he gets them.

my ex was an English teacher at a massive comprehensive school: they would both agree that a good teacher shouldnt have to behave like this to keep a grip on a class of 11 year olds.

Let me guess, he never had any problems with the kids!
This usually means that he didn't give out detentions and the other teachers had to pick up the slack.
Also how long ago did he teach? behaviour is much worse than it has been in years.

I thoroughly disagree with this. Strictness isn’t the only way to handle kids. Most our our strict teachers in ugh school were disrepspected because they were wankers. The most respected teacher was an English teacher who I never saw give out a detention or raise her voice. She was firm, fair and an incredible woman. She wasn’t soft and we didn’t dick around. I can recall loads of her lessons and one of the texts she taught is now among my favourite books.

The idea that you have to be strict and shout and give out detentions and roll your eyes at kids to get results is utterly incorrect.

The idea that you have to be strict and shout and give out detentions and roll your eyes at kids to get results is utterly incorrect.

Other than mentioning detentions none of the other bits that you mention are in my post and are all your own interpretation of my post.

Okay fine, you don’t have to give out punishments/detentions to be a good teacher and have control over your class.The point stands.

How many years teaching experience do you have ? At what level ?

I wouldn’t say I’m awful to year 7s but I am definitely more stern in the first few weeks. Lots of them want to ask constant questions, talk over you, tell you what they are doing, ask what to do rather than waiting for instructions. Some of them do this because they’re super keen but some are pretty naughty! They are trying to see what they can get away with. This has got worse over recent years.

Lessons are only 1 hour so to stand a chance of getting through any content properly you really do need to set out your stall, it’s all a bit of an act really. Give her a few weeks and I bet she calms down. A little bit of fear isn’t a bad thing when you’re trying to control 30-33 people every hour for 4-5 hours a day.

I haven’t taught children in a school setting but I have worked with kids, unruly ones at that. Being a teacher isn’t the only way to understand what it’s like to deal with tricky kids.

So zero experience? Never actually taught a single class ?

Not in a formal school setting no, but I have taught groups of unruly kids, yes.

Any teacher that does that either spends all of their time keeping kids back and "chatting" to them about what they have done or the class is chaos.
Not following the classroom rules and sanctions policy of the school makes life harder for other teachers.

The one exception to this is if the class is well-behaved with no children with issues, which is increasingly rare in today's education system.

So have you ever taught class after class of 30 kids at a time ? Do you have classroom management experience?

Phone the teacher, have a chat, let them know and see if things can be ironed out. They may even invite you both in after school for a chat. Start there and see if things get better.

I'm a secondary school teacher.

Don't go in all guns blazing after the first week demanding a new class. The teacher is getting to know the students and establishing expectations and routines. We do have to be quite strict at first with Year 7s because a lot of them have no idea how to behave and some are frankly quite feral. This strictness might seem 'scary' to a child used to the cuddly warmth of primary school, but they do get used to it after the first few weeks.

As a couple of PPs have said, the relentless inane questions do get frustrating and disruptive. Year 7s do need to learn quite quickly that they have to develop independence, resilience and common sense, otherwise you lose so much precious lesson time to utterly pointless questions and silly distractions.

I remember last year with my Year 7s, in our first lesson I lost the plot when the fifth child asked me what the title was when it was quite literally on the board in front of them and I'd said it about ten times already. I regretted being snappy afterwards and apologised but really and truly it is so bloody trying to have to keep stopping what you're doing to answer yet another question that someone has already asked or provide information that is literally in front of a child's face. I try and be Miss Honey but the litany of 'Miss I haven't got a pen', 'Can I write in pencil?', 'What's the date?', 'Where should I write the title?' and so on and so on - argh!!! - really does test the patience of a saint. Especially last thing on a Friday.

Give it time. I would only recommend intervening if this is still an issue by half term.