If a child asks in KS3 science class "is it possible to change sex?"...

[musicalfrog]

What answer would they be given by the teacher?

^The irony of this is that you are probably the exact same person (people) who went to town on the 'Imane Khelif is a man' bandwagon. So if you believe that Imane is a man, then you believe humans can change their sex.°

Well, that's a spectacular misunderstanding of the facts. Khelife is a man, we know that, because he failed a chromosome test. Even his trainer said that he did, because he's XY.

He's never been female, although he was mistakenly recorded as such at birth, because the disorder he has means that it looked as though he had a vulva. His testes function normally and he went through male puberty, developing male physicality.

This is very well understood medical science.

Imane was proven to be a man, even his own coach outed him. So what's your point?

@JoanCollected Imane has ARD 5 which is a male specific DSD (Difference of Sexual Development), or intersex. He has undescended testes and went through male puberty. His body shows this.

Are you truly saying you did not realise he was a male? After all this, and after all the evidence, documentation and his own coach admitting it on camera? You went to town on the "Imane is not a male" bandwagon?

Would you like me to provide the links to the documentation and admissions he is male? Don't you feel rather silly now? You could have just researched before embarrassing yourself.

Oh dear🙄

or intersex

‘Intersex’ is an outdated misnomer referring to those with differences of sexual development, also called congenital reproductive disorders. Everyone with a DSD is either male or female. There is no ‘inbetween’ sex, no third gamete type. It is also widely adopted by transactivitist to try and pretend sex is not binary with many falsely claiming on social media and TikTok to be ‘intersex’ and offering impossible ‘symptoms’ or routes to diagnosis. They then appear later claiming a different diagnosis. They are fraudsters jumping on the back of distressing conditions to try and back up their claims. No different from people who falsely claim to have cancer to scam money from their friends.

I know that. I used the term 'intersex' for those who are only familiar with that term, and not DSDs, to explain the DSDs and 'intersex' are the same. DSD is the more accepted term, but not everyone knows that.

Yes, I thought you did, but thought it was worth clarifying for others reading this because there are many who seem to think people who are ‘intersex’ are not male or female but some kind of ‘other’.

The irony of this is that you are probably the exact same person (people) who went to town on the 'Imane Khelif is a man' bandwagon.

If this person has XY chromosomes, they should not be competing with women regardless of whether they were raised as a girl. They are MALE.

How does stating biological reality “belittle” your friend?

Yes, and doesn't "pretending" to your friend make you a dishonest friend?

I would rather be truthful...

Well, in that case I'm sure you won't ever have any trans friends, so it's not something you'll ever need to concern yourself with!

What's the quote?

I'd rather be rude than a fkn liar.

Yep.

I'm sure you would!

Odd response. What does it even mean?

It's not quite as simple as XY chromosomes equal male. There are some XY DSD's which mean a person with XY chromosomes has a body considered female - eg Swyer's syndrome, or Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.

Khalief is XY and has clearly gone through male puberty though, so he is male.

The simplest way to ensure fair competition for women is to reinstate cheek swabs for chromosome testing, then anyone XY has to produce more medical information that they have one of a list of agreed DSDs before they can compete in any women's sport.

Irrelevant to the question of if you can change sex - no you can’t.

I agree with you, it's irrelevant to the question, of course you can't change sex.

So you think if I have any trans friends, I would need to lie / pretend in order to keep their friendship?

Is that what you do?

I honour and respect their choices, because I'm a human being who understands that people are complicated. I don't demand that people categorise themselves in ways that make them more palatable to me, no.

Do you apply that to everyone or just your friend? Paedophilia is ‘unpalatable’ to me, do you respect their choices? What about fraudsters who lie about their qualifications rather than their sex? Would you understand that ‘people are complicated’ if you were sold a cut-and-shunt used car?

What a delightfully batshit response.

I don't feel the same about criminals and paedophiles, no.

Do you normally struggle with a lack of nuance?

There’s no nuance here, when it’s a question of intact males in women’s spaces.

If there is no nuance, are you saying that accepting transwomen is the same as accepting pedophiles and criminals? That's what your post seems to say.

It's about MALES. Not 'transwomen'. MALES.

You don't even get what the argument is about. Only a male who a predator would want to invade womens safe single sex spaces where he is not wanted or invited. So, yes. A male who enters the ladies is no different of a calibre of a person than a paedophile or a criminal. How else would you describe a male creeping in the ladies? If you have another description of that, lets hear it. I think we'd all like to know how you'd describe a male creeping in the ladies.

I was talking about my own, valid, opinions about the people in my life.

Of course, on mumsnet having and accepting a transwoman as a good friend must mean you are also OK with pedophiles.

I call her her, and I don't insist to her face that she's a biological male, because I'm not a zealot.